HT for graphic: thegloriousbattle.com
In a previous blog post thread, GMPilot wrote a comment where he challenged God’s goodness and righteous judgment upon cities and people in the Old Testament. His contention, “when god deals with his people, one hand holds the grace and the other hand holds the mace.” He claimed that such cities were never given a chance to “choose life” because God had them exterminated. GMPilot challenged me by writing, “You’re not going to sit there and deny that, are you?”
First, I will state that GMPilot’s purpose here at Talk Wisdom has always been to challenge the beliefs of Christians. He even admits (in the comment exchange below) that he is not “seeking to be reached” with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Therefore, his challenges against God, Jesus Christ, and God’s Word, the Bible are only meant to purposely counter, disparage, and even ridicule (at times) Christian belief. In doing this, he often shares his contempt for our God of the Bible. I write this so that readers here will understand where such challenges are coming from and for what purpose GMPilot writes comments here at this blog.
In apologetics, it is always important to realize that the challenges presented by non-believers and the answers given by a Christian may end up never being satisfying to the inquirer. Why? Because when a non-believer starts out admitting that he/she is here for the purpose of challenging, and not for the purpose of being reached through the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then he/she has already purposed within his/her own mind that he/she will not accept the answers regarding faith (and what is needed in order to be saved from our sins and reconciled back unto God) that are given by the Christian believer.
Scripture tells us exactly why such a mindset is so in non-believers (who aren’t seeking God) in the “those who are perishing” verses. However, as Christians who are here to spread the Gospel, we are instructed to give an answer to those who are perishing. Whether or not such answers are accepted are ultimately between God and the individual.
With that said, here is the comment exchange from the previous post:
gmpilot Says:
(Christine wrote:) Steve can certainly speak for himself here if he chooses to and I can’t really speak for him, but from what I have seen of his former comments to you, he has figured out that you aren’t here for the purpose of being reached.
(GMPilot wrote:) If you can remember that far back, please recall that I originally came to your forum because I believed that your premises were wrong, and I wanted you to know why I thought so. It wasn’t a question of ‘being reached’.
All I’m saying is that steve said he didn’t care one way or the other if I heeded his words. If he can’t be sincere about his religion, there’s no reason why I should be enthused about it.
(Christine wrote:) As I have mentioned many times before, it is always good and important to consider the verses before and after the quoted verse for greater context. Plus, if you read the verses along with theentire commentary>, you will gain a much better understanding that Isaiah was writing about An Invitation to Receive the Glory of the LORD’s Restoration.
(GMPilot wrote:) I read and understood the passage in its context, and Guzik was not needed to tell me that. But the basic message is unchanged: when god deals with his people, one hand holds the grace and the other hand holds the mace. The cities and people I listed above were never given a chance to “choose life”; god had them exterminated. You’re not going to sit there and deny that, are you?
My reply:
christinewjc Says:
GM wrote:
If you can remember that far back, please recall that I originally came to your forum because I believed that your premises were wrong, and I wanted you to know why I thought so. It wasn’t a question of ‘being reached’.
C: Therein lies the problem. Your purpose for being here is completely the opposite of my purpose(s) for writing this blog.
I think that you are wrong about Steve [not] “being sincere about his religion.” It is more about faith, rather than that broad term “religion.” Not every Christian chooses to participate in the work (nor, does every Christian have the gift) of apologetics. Many are here for other worthy purposes, and God gives severally [Note: see relatively – especially in word origin – “mid-15c., “relatively;” 1620s, “relatively to each singly,”] in such matters.
Speaking biblically, when Steve said what he did to you he was probably utilizing what Jesus said about shaking the dust off under your feet as a testimony against them.
YOU are the one who admitted to not WANTING to be reached. You are only here to challenge my beliefs and attempt to impose your own lack of belief upon me. Sorry – no can do! Christ and his promises to believers wins out with me now and throughout eternity.
GM wrote:
I read and understood the passage in its context, and Guzik was not needed to tell me that. But the basic message is unchanged: when god deals with his people, one hand holds the grace and the other hand holds the mace. The cities and people I listed above were never given a chance to “choose life”; god had them exterminated. You’re not going to sit there and deny that, are you?
C: How do you know that those peoples were never given a chance to choose life? We would need to dig deep into historical documents in order to find the truth of the matter. However, we DO have other examples of peoples who refused to repent. Take the example of Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham asked to spare the city if 50 persons could be found who were righteous. Then the request dwindled down to 40, then 30, then 20, then 10. As we know, the only righteous people found were in Lot’s family so they were warned to flee by the angels before the city and all of its wicked and sinful inhabitants were destroyed. Then, Lot’s wife looked back (ignoring the warning not to) and turned into a pillar of salt! Her longing for, and desire not to leave that city of sin showed what was truly in her heart – and she was far from God’s righteousness, holiness, mercy and forgiveness; precisely because she ignored the angels of God and their warnings and thus she refused to repent.
We all have a conscience. It is built within us to know right from wrong. When Adam and Eve sinned, they knew that they had chosen evil and death rather than the good and life that they enjoyed with God. Therefore, the plan of salvation was devised in order to save people from their sins and be reconciled back unto God through the coming Messiah – Jesus Christ. All of the Old Testament saints who believed in God the Father and looked forward to the coming of the Messiah were saved. Once Christ appeared, preached, suffered, and died on the cross; then was resurrected unto life and ascended into heaven to be at the right hand of the Father, people had no excuse for not believing in Him.
I will be doing a post soon (may take a while) where the connections between the Old Testament prophets who prophesied (about the coming Messiah Jesus Christ) and how it relates to the end times, the Jews, and the return of Christ – who is the King and the Jewish Messiah – who will usher in the Millennial Kingdom that will fulfill what God promised the Israelites of the Old Testament regarding their Messiah. What the Jews expected of their Messiah didn’t occur at Christ’s first coming here on this earth, but such prophecies WILL be fulfilled at His second coming. This is what connects Judaism to Christianity, even though the Jewish people of today {except Messianic Jews who accept Yeshua) reject the Lordship of Christ now, it will not forever be so in the end times, during the earthly Millennial kingdom, and ultimately in the eternal state.
Update 11/8/14 –
GM wrote:
So, god told the Israelites “I shall send my son to earth twice. The first time only the Gentiles will believe him, but the second time you will, and then my kingdom will be established.” That’s quite a statement—is there anything in the Jewish scriptures that supports it?
I suggested to him to come to this post and read it. It helps answer GM’s latest question.
*******
As I have explained before at this blog, I am in the middle of reading and watching the episodes on television of Dr. David Jeremiah’s new book, “Agents of the Apocalypse.”
My reading finally caught up with the television presentations, and I am currently in chapter nine which is entitled, “The King.”
In regards to the Millennium, it may be considered far to simplistic to say that the Old Testament saints (Jewish believers in anticipation of the coming Messiah), we as believers in Jesus Christ, as well as the Jewish evangelists and converts to Jesus during the Tribulation “get a do-over” after our lives here in this fallen world. But basically, that is what the Millennial Kingdom will be! [Also see: Jesus is a Jew]
Dr. Jeremiah masterfully examines the writings of the prophets concerning the millennial kingdom, and twelve features command our attention. I will not be able to cover all twelve in this post, but I will share the first two.
I highly recommend that readers here GET THIS BOOK! It is one of the THE BEST books on Revelation that I have ever read; and I have read at least half a dozen.
Chapter 9 has impacted me tremendously! I have always wanted to have a resource that connects the many prophecies written in the Old Testament to the end times book of Revelation in the New Testament.
The first feature regarding the millennial kingdom that commands our attention include:
“The Anticipation of the Kingdom.”
I have set My king on My holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, “You are My Son, today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I will give You the nations for Your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for Your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.” Psalm 2:6-9
Dr. Jeremiah writes:
The Old Testament prophetic books tell us a great deal about the millennial kingdom. In the book of Isaiah, entire chapters are devoted to the subject. Before Isaiah, David wrote these prophetic lines in Psalm 2, which describe God the Father gifting the Kingdom to His Son, Jesus Christ.
Some of the most vivid prophecies of the Kingdom age are found in the writings of Daniel. Chapter 2 records that he saw the whole course of the world’s future revealed in the dream of pagan king Nebuchadnezzar. This dream featured the gigantic statue of a man formed with layers of descending quality, from a golden head to feet of clay. Each layer represented a succeeding world empire. The vision culminated when “a tone [that] was cut out without hands” shattered the image (Daniel 2;34) and grew until it filled the earth.
Here is Daniel’s explanation of this vision: “In the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever” (Daniel 2:44).
In a later vision, Daniel saw the King coming to take His Kingdom: “I was watching in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed” (Daniel 7:13-14).
One of the most famous prophecies regarding the coming of the King is found in the book of Isaiah: “Unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, to order it and establish it with judgment and justice from that time forward, even forever” (9:6-7).
In the book of Revelation, the seventh trumpet sounds, and the message that accompanies it makes a bold statement about Christ’s Kingdom: “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” (11:15).
“The Coronation of the King”
Out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron…And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:15-16
In this passage, John tells us how the King will arrive and begin His reign. He will come as a conqueror, taking back His world. As the Old Testament prophecies indicate, there is a close connection between our Lord’s victory at the Battle of Armageddon and His reign as King over all the earth: “The LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle….And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be–“The LORD is one,’ and His name one” (Zechariah 14:3,9). Christ must rid the earth of its evil usurper before He can establish His reign.
In the Millennium, Satan will no longer be the prince of the world. His era will end, and Christ will initiate His eternal reign of righteousness, joy, prosperity, and peace. His glory will shine forth and bathe the universe with righteousness.
This is the same message Gabriel announced to Mary. He told her that one day her son Jesus would serve as the supreme Ruler of the world: “He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end” (Luke 1:32-33).
Alva McClain, the founder of Grace Theological Seminary, describes Christ’s Kingship this way:
The age to come, as [Jesus] like to call it, will be ushered in by the exercise of His immediate power and authority. He has all power now; He will take this power and use it to the full when He returns. The age-long silence of God, the taunt of unbelief, will be broken by the transition and resurrection of the church, by the unloosing of judgment long withheld; by the visible and personal presence of the Mediatorial King, and by the complete establishment of His Kingdom on earth for a period specified by our Lord as “1,000 years.”…During this period, every aspect of the Kingdom as set forth in Old Testament prophecy will be realized upon earth, truly the golden age of the world. Children will be born, life will go on, and men will work and play, but under ideal conditions.5
[5 Source: From unpublished notes by Alva J. McClain, Grace Theological Seminary, Winona Lake, Indiana.]
There is SO MUCH MORE to share! In future posts my goal is to share the other ten features that command our attention:
1. The Incarceration of Satan
2. The Administration of David
3. The Participation of the Saints
4. The Elimination of War
5. The Realization of Prosperity
6. The Integration of Holiness
7. The Prolongation of Life
8. The Celebration of Joy
9. The Centralization of Worship
10. The Continuation of the Kingdom
The song “Joy to the World” is generally played and sung at Christmastime. Well, the first stanza can be applied to Christ being born in Bethlehem, but did you know that the remaining stanzas actually describe the Second Coming of Christ and how life will be in the Millennium?
Pay close attention to the lyrics!
Joy to the World
Joy to the World , the Lord is come!
Let earth receive her King;
Let every heart prepare Him room,
And Heaven and nature sing,
And Heaven and nature sing,
And Heaven, and Heaven, and nature sing.
Joy to the World, the Savior reigns!
Let men their songs employ;
While fields and floods, rocks, hills and plains
Repeat the sounding joy,
Repeat the sounding joy,
Repeat, repeat, the sounding joy.
No more let sins and sorrows grow,
Nor thorns infest the ground;
He comes to make His blessings flow
Far as the curse is found,
Far as the curse is found,
Far as, far as, the curse is found.
He rules the world with truth and grace,
And makes the nations prove
The glories of His righteousness,
And wonders of His love,
And wonders of His love,
And wonders, wonders, of His love.
Hat tip: Agents of the Apocalypse by Dr. David Jeremiah