This is a question for anyone who cares to share their own opinion, scholarly review(s), or biblical knowledge about this topic. Is America currently under judgment?
I asked that question of a Christian friend in a previous comment thread who happens to support Donald Trump for president.
When I first started blogging about my opposition to Trump as the nominee, I did write that even though he isn’t my choice for president, IMHO he would be light-years better than either HiLIARy [H/T Steve of Cry and Howl for link] or Commie Bernie. All that I could do is hope for the best concerning him. However, the more I learn about him, the less I think that my previous opinion was accurate.
Recently, the media of mass deception (can’t trust them, of course!) has claimed that Trump stated that his plans for banning Muslim immigrants “is a suggestion.” First he said he would ban them “until we know what is going on”…whatever that means. Next, he said that it would be a temporary ban. OK good – that brings some clarity to the issue. This morning I watched a brief segment of the news on CNN, and they had as the byline beneath the screen that Trump is now saying, “everything is a suggestion.” I shake my head in disbelief that he ever said that! Do you know if it’s true? I didn’t think that Trump would be so wishy-washy and it bothers me.
Now, I hear that Mitt Romney and a bunch of anti-Trump Republicans want to draft Mark Cuban to run as a third-party candidate.
I have tried to wrap my mind around all of the possible scenarios regarding this election and at this point, I can’t even imagine what is going to happen.
I fear that God still places America under judgment because of her sins. Such sins run rampant like never before and until the people in this nation repent and turn back to the Lord Jesus Christ, we will continue to deserve such judgment.
Editorial Reviews
An obscure passage in the Book of Isaiah describing the fall of ancient Israel has, since September 11, 2001, been eerily re-enacted in the United States exactly as it originally occurred in the time of the great prophet of Israel leading to the nation’s demise.
Jonathan Cahn, the author of The Harbinger, has been shocking audiences by revealing the astonishing parallels between the fall of ancient Israel and current events unfolding in the US, what he calls “an ancient mystery that holds the secret of America’s future and the collapse of the global economy.”
In this stunning new documentary The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment, Rabbi Cahn unravels the mystery behind this seemingly innocuous Biblical verse, and shows that ancient harbingers of judgment are now manifesting in America, just as they once did in Israel. This fascinating new DVD asks the question, “Is God sending America a prophetic message of what will soon be?” and Rabbi Cahn provides the answers through mounting evidence that the answer is ‘yes.’
Top Customer Reviews
4.0 out of 5 stars
Warnings From God? By David Bower VINE VOICE on July 8, 2012
Format: DVD
This is an interesting study on some very pertinent events in the recent history of the United States. Rabbi Cahn uses the verse in Isaiah 9:10 as a focus for his analysis of events in this country starting on September 11, 2001 with the destruction of the two World Trade Center towers representing the first shaking.The documentary is in two parts, “The First Shaking” and “The Second Shaking” on two DVD’s. In the first Rabbi Cahn seeks to show how events after 9/11 followed a similar pattern to Israel’s experience before their destruction at the hands of the Assyrians. The parallels are too close to appear coincidental and Rabbi Cahn presents strong arguments that these events are warnings from God.
The information provided is interesting to anyone who is concerned about the future of this country and brings together in one place a cross-section of information that applies to the events which occurred. The conclusion is we are following a similar path nationally and are being given a warning that the path we are following is the wrong one.
If a national repentance does not come wherein we return to our dependency on the grace of God, judgment will surely follow and increase in intensity.
The second DVD, “The Second Shaking” discusses the second warning from God as being the financial problems that have emerged and focuses on the events of September, 2008 including the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers and the stock market crash of 2008.
The second DVD attempts to introduce a note of hope when Rabbi Cahn urges Christians to remember God’s promise in 2 Chronicles 7:14. There may be a problem there because many believe that promise was only to Israel, not to the church. God gave Israel a land but He didn’t give the church a land, He gave the church a heavenly city, The New Jerusalem.
There is no real doubt that the United States is on an unsustainable path; if we continue on this path we are heading down a path toward our destruction as a nation. As students of prophecy have observed, the United States is conspicuously absent from Bible prophecy concerning the end times.
It may well be we are observing the reasons for this as they play out in real life before us. It appears doubtful to me that the USA will be restored in the time left as signs all over the world point to the soon return of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Hat tips to all links.
Talk Wisdom 
May 15, 2016 at 3:04 pm |
Wow! I just checked out a commentary by Matthew Henry and here is the headline for analysis of this portion of Scripture:
Continuing…
Does this commentary on the prophecy accurately describe what is currently happening here in America?!!! I think so!
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May 15, 2016 at 5:14 pm |
My understanding of this issue (it is more than opinion, but not certain enough to assert as fact):
1st — difficult question.
OK, we must understand that the Isaiah prophecy against Israel was for Israel (especially the northern tribes). The ten northern tribes were often referred to as Ephraim. IF you will study the prophecies about Ephraim, you will find he was to become MANY nations (when did that happen in the OT?). He was also to be given a land of milk and honey/rest. This land is NOT Israel. So, where and when did THAT happen? Now hold to that for a moment.
IF you follow the understanding of Ellis Skolfield, you will find that one of Daniels prophetic periods of days lands on a rather significant date — 1776!
Our founders thought of themselves not so much as New Israel, but as ‘The City on a Hill.’ In effect, this is the same thing. So they saw a spiritual connection between them and God and the new land.
Now, there is a LOT — and I mean A LOT more to this. I would need several posts just to lay out the outline for you. But the point is this: there IS reason to believe that America is connected to prophecy, and if it is connected through Ephraim, then the prophecy of Isaiah STILL APPLIES TO EPHRAIM! If we are that land, and the decedents of Ephraim, then YES! We are under judgment — and in the exact same way as the northern tribes!
NOW, if we are NOT connected to Ephraim, we may still be under judgment as Washington made a covenant connecting this nations future to its obedience to God. SO, as we turn away, God will leave us to our depravity — at the very least. But since we made a covenant with Him, it is very likely He will judge us instead.
Either way, I believe we are NOT in a ‘good’ place regarding the Lord and His view of our nation.
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May 15, 2016 at 6:41 pm |
Joe,
Thanks so much for sharing what you wrote! Please feel free to share any and all additional information (including links) on this topic. I am not as familiar with it all as you are, so I would appreciate to learn what you know and have studied regarding the prophetic parallels between Israel’s and America’s judgment!
I have not read either of Jonathan Cahn’s books yet, but I have read excerpts. I recall someone encouraging me to read them, but I haven’t gotten around to it yet. They both need to be on my reading list!
When I read the commentary written by Matthew Henry on Isaiah 9:8-21, it piqued my interest in Cahn’s books. It also demonstrated (to me, at least) exactly why America’s path is being allowed to go in the wrong direction for so long now.
Write more soon, my friend!
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May 15, 2016 at 6:07 pm |
CJW: Recently, the media of mass deception (can’t trust them, of course!) has claimed that Trump stated that his plans for banning Muslim immigrants “is a suggestion.”
No, the MSM didn’t ‘claim’ that: he actually said it. In fact, everything, he now claims, IS “just a suggestion” (Start at 3:50). He waffles as well as any professional politician.
Now, I hear that Mitt Romney and a bunch of anti-Trump Republicans want to draft Mark Cuban to run as a third-party candidate.
It won’t work. It’s too late for that, and in any case, The People have spoken, and are just waiting to repeat it again in Cleveland, and yet again at the ballot box.
I fear that God still places America under judgment because of her sins. Such sins run rampant like never before and until the people in this nation repent and turn back to the Lord Jesus Christ, we will continue to deserve such judgment.
Oh, there’s judgment all right, but not from any god. It’s coming from the people, as the Constitution warrants it. I may not agree with the judgment—I know you don’t—but such is politics. If the judgment is really bad, we may not have a USA in five years, but look how often Yahweh drop-kicked his Chosen People™ over the centuries! You should be anticipating this possibility as evidence of your god’s love.
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May 15, 2016 at 6:50 pm |
1. Well, thanks for confirming the “just a suggestion” meme that is now trending regarding Trump.
2. I agree that the third party candidate idea won’t work.
3. We may vehemently disagree on where the judgment is coming from (and, especially why).
God’s covenant with Israel stands forever. Chastisement of “the apple of His eye nation” has been needed in order to turn them back to God. When Israel was given statehood again after WWII, it was not only a miraculous event in history, but was a very significant Bible prophecy fulfilled. I know this means nothing to you, but I hope that readers will find this fact illuminating.
Speaking of prophecy… do you still have nothing more to say about (plus, the proof I gave you with a link to them all) Jesus Christ fulfilling over 300 prophecies (with more to be fulfilled at His Second Coming) in the Bible?
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May 15, 2016 at 7:09 pm |
Christi,
The fact that so few recognize the significance of Israel coming back into existence, AND Jerusalem back under Hebrew control… Well, it makes me wonder how a ‘Christian’ could miss that this is the most significant fulfillment of prophecy since Christ? Scripture tells us that the Pharisees knew who Jesus was, they just refused to acknowledge Him. But today, God’s people do not recognize the next major milestone in His plan — the re-birth of Israel.
Now, two things to note here:
1st — the re-birth of Israel is a harbinger of the End Times (NOT Last Days — those started with Christ’s ascension). This is the final scene before Christ’s return. I do not know how long it lasts — nor do I care. What is important to me is that we know the SEASON!
2nd — as you said: God’s covenants remain in place. Now, as to Israel: too many believe that Christianity has nothing to do with ‘Jews,’ but they are mistaken. The Hebrews are the cultivated or domesticated vine/olive tree. The gentiles are grafted in. What does it mean to be ‘grafted in?’ it means we become a part of that vine/tree!!! So, since we are a part, we share in the inheritance (just as Scripture says). And if you share in the inheritance, then you share in the covenant!!!
Do the math from there.
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May 17, 2016 at 4:11 am
Great points all around! God has reasons for everything that He does and allows to happen. For the Gentiles sakes, we were given the opportunity to be grafted in, as you had written here, and we are part of the same vine/tree!
Joe, have you heard or read much about the Messianic Jews who started believing in Jesus shortly after the 6 day war in 1967? Prior to that time, there were not many Jews coming around to Jesus as their Messiah. This movement has been growing ever since and as a result many Messianic Rabbis are bringing the Jewish Feast Days back into the minds of Christian believers and there is encouragement to celebrate them with our Messianic Jewish brothers and sisters!
This has been an additional interest of mine over the past four years, and here is one post that I’d like to share with you:
How the Passover Seder Reveals Jesus Christ.
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May 17, 2016 at 11:46 am
Christi,
Yes, I have. I used to be in touch with the local Messianic Jewish community here where I live. I also give part of my tithe to ‘Jews for Jesus.’ They help spread the Gospel in the Ukraine and other parts of that geographical region. I discovered them when their leader visited our church and lead a Passover Supper for us. He explained EVERYTHING in this link you shared — and more 🙂
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May 17, 2016 at 1:35 pm
My husband and I have been invited to a Passover Seder meal over the past few years, but since it was being held over 2 hours away (plus, last year (2015) it began on Good Friday and we have had other commitments each time we had been invited), we have not been able to attend.
My question though. If it is Passover Seder with Reformed Jewish believers, would it ever be appropriate to share what we know about Jesus Christ being revealed through the Passover Seder? Unlike Messianic Jews, they may believe that Jesus was a “good teacher,” but they do not see Him as the Messiah spoken about in the Torah.
I have often wondered what to do in such a situation. I thought that maybe I would not share such information at the first visit, but maybe during the following year I could share “what I have learned?” Thoughts?
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May 17, 2016 at 1:45 pm
I have a Jewish friend. It took time. We had to build a friendship first. In that time, I let him know I was a Christian, but I was NOT an enemy of the Jews. I kept telling my friend that we — as Christians — have been grafted in to the Jewish faith. We are not separate or set apart. I had to take the time to lay the groundwork, convincing him that a TRUE Christian is a brother, not an enemy.
Eventually, my friend asked me. Then I asked him to read a passage in Isaiah, where God speaks of Himself, His Son and His Spirit being in Israel all at the same time. My Jewish friend came back shocked. He told me they do not study the prophets — only the Torah!!! So I asked him to read some sections in Psalms and in other prophets. Finally, he agreed to read 1 book from the NT. I told him to read Hebrews.
My friend now understands Who Christ is. He is wrestling with hos he is going to explain this to his JEWISH family — because my friend wants them to see Christ as Messiah, as well.
Now, I don’t know if this will help you, but I thought it timely to share this story with you — just in case 😉
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May 17, 2016 at 2:19 pm
God bless you for handling the situation with your Jewish friend so well! It is good when someone asks us why we believe as we do. That is an invitation to share Jesus and how He fulfilled the Old Testament prophesies of the prophets!
I’m not well versed in the Jewish writings, so what Jewish writings contain what the OT prophets wrote? The three writings (and some are very long!) that I know about but haven’t read are the Mishnah, Talmud, and Midrash. I only learned about some of the information in those writings via other authors discussing some of the content. In fact, the “Days of Noah” link that I shared to my former blog mentions the Talmud and the Midrash Rabbah Genesis.
Yes! What you shared was very helpful and I thank you for it!
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May 17, 2016 at 2:26 pm
Christi,
The Jews have the same Scriptures we do (for the most part). They just arrange them differently.
The first five books are known as the Torah (or Law). The whole of the Old Testament taken together is known as the Tanahk (Spelling seems to vary as it is an acronym).
The problem for the Jews is they tend to ONLY study the Torah. Well, if you ignore the prophets, you are going to miss the signs that point to the Messiah.
Now, as to the Mishnah, Talmud, and Midrash: be careful with those. They are mostly Rabbinical TRADITION! They are not inspired, and not Scripture. In fact, much of what is in them is a continuation of the very things Christ condemned the Pharisees for forcing on the people. For example: they contain directions for how to tie your shoes! I do not think God cares about such things (but I could be wrong). So, while there IS valuable information in there (especially the ancient traditions from BEFORE Moses), they can get people sideways.
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May 17, 2016 at 2:56 pm
Oh! I see…
But I do have a question. Why would the Jews ignore their own prophets? Seems very odd to me.
Thanks for explaining the differences regarding Rabbinical tradition. I just thought that it was interesting to read that these Rabbis of ancient times and writings wrote that “men marrying men” was part of the sins that led to the Flood.
While doing some research just now, I ran across this:
What’s Wrong with The Harbinger’s “Ancient Mystery”?
Need to sign off soon so didn’t read it all yet. It appears that the writer at that site objects to Cahn’s book because he apparently mixes in some truth with Kabbalah mysticism!
Well, it is important to trust but verify these days!
At least this “good part” has awakened believers because many churches these days fail to do so:
Here is the beginning of the questionable areas in the book:
Good advice and I will be reading the rest of that page later today.
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May 17, 2016 at 3:08 pm
Christi,
Thanks for the link. I have read the Harbinger, so I will study this objection later (but soon).
As for why the Jews would ignore the prophets: it’s simple. First, not ALL Jews ignore the prophets, but many do. As I said, the reason is simple: if they were to study the prophets as closely as they do the Torah, they would run face-to-face with Christ! Once you do that, you must accept Him as Messiah. So, just as scoffers refuse to seriously consider prophecy (because it would force them to surrender their power/will), Jews ignore prophecy (because it would force them to surrender their power/will).
HOWEVER, in the case of the Jews, I believe GOD is largely responsible for deflecting their attention/focus. The moment Jews start to study prophecy, they will be forced to accept Christ as Messiah. That will lead to them crying “Blessed is He Who comes in the name of the Lord!” The moment the Jewish community does that, time ends and Christ returns. So, since this has not happened, we can safely assume the fullness of the Gentiles has yet to come in and God is still blinding the Jew.
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May 17, 2016 at 10:43 pm
Christi,
OK, I have read through the ‘objections’ the the Harbinger. Honestly? I think a great deal of it is an objection to the way Cahn presents the material. Berit objects to the literary characters and devices Cahn used, almost to the point of accusing Cahn of using them to lead people astray. Notice Berit does NOT address the prophecies themselves, or the way Cahn interprets them.
Now, I have no doubt that Berit means well. ALL of God’s people can tend toward zealotry from time to time — especially in trying to defend His Word. But, having read the Harbinger and followed up on the prophecy, I do not see the threat Berit sees. Perhaps it is because I learned about how the Harbinger ties in to the prophecies about Ephraim. Berit may not have made that connection yet. If not, he couldn’t possibly understand the reason I believe Cahn is in the right church and in the right pew.
IN a VERY brief nutshell. Ephraim is very likely the Protestant reformers. The land Ephraim was promised is most likely America. If this is the case, it does NOT mean America is new Israel or part of what will happen in the End Times. That is ALL Jerusalem-centered, and Scripture says so. But it DOES mean that America IS connected — by prophecy — to the Covenant God made with Israel/Ephraim. Again, IF this is the case, then the Isaiah prophecy DOES apply because it is being given to the same SPIRITUAL people and for the same SPIRITUAL reasons! You know how history and prophecy repeat? Well, it is happening again — here — now — and just like Ephraim of old, we are ignoring the warnings. Now, how will the end result be any different if we do not respond differently?
BTW: IF all of this is true, America is not under judgment — YET! We are still being shaken, warned. But, we are at the point of our last warning and, if we ignore it, and the pattern holds, destruction will become unavoidable!
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May 15, 2016 at 8:46 pm |
1. You’re welcome.
2. Well, another case where we agree. That wasn’t so hard, was it?
3. You don’t disagree with me that Trump is a _____; you know he is. You may vehemently disagree why because you claim to have discerned it through supernatural means, but you know he is. No conflict there.
When Israel was given statehood again after WWII, it was not only a miraculous event in history, but was a very significant Bible prophecy fulfilled.
How come nobody is bleating similar things about the European Union?
Speaking of prophecy… do you still have nothing more to say about (plus, the proof I gave you with a link to them all) Jesus Christ fulfilling over 300 prophecies (with more to be fulfilled at His Second Coming) in the Bible?
I’ll repeat what I said then:
“This would have been ideally suited to the website you used to have, not confined to tiny blog posts.
So, do you expect me to examine each prophecy point by point? That could take years, and the world moves on. Or are there one or two unassailable prophecies that you’d like to dare me to dispute?
More importantly, is this what convinced YOU?”
Oh, by the way: here’s what I’ve heard about that third party-bid. Most possible contenders consider it “futile” and a “suicide run”. Your mileage may vary, of course.
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May 17, 2016 at 4:29 am
You have asked whether or not Jesus’ fulfillment of prophecy convinced me in my faith.
I would need to say that belief came first – where I made the decision to repent through confession of my sins at the foot of the cross of Christ, and thus ask Jesus to be Lord and Savior over my life through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
As I studied the Bible (starting with the Gospel of John), the life, mission, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ became more real to me (as compared to when I was a “practicing Catholic.”)
Through the study of Scripture and realizing all of the prophecies that have been fulfilled (especially the re-birth of Israel and Jesus fulfilling over 300 messianic prophecies) has greatly enhanced and deepened my faith.
Your excuse to not examine each prophecy is just that…an excuse.
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May 15, 2016 at 8:36 pm |
I would that America is not under Divine Judgment as it is under demonic influence. I don’t hold to the Covenant paradigm; but it does follow logically that, when a people collectively turn from God, they embrace evil. Naturally, they’ll reap the consequences of their choice.
By definition, a place without God is a hell. Hell has its hierarchies of demons too; and the fact that most Americans don’t want to face is the fact that our bad leaders and criminal policies are reflections of the society they represent.
So, yes—repentance is the solution. Elections don’t mean anything if the Electorate is corrupt.
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May 17, 2016 at 4:22 am |
Hello The Night Wind!
Welcome to Talk Wisdom! I certainly agree that America is under demonic influence and we are, unfortunately, reaping what we sow.
However, I still wonder if America is under God’s judgment during this time where we are experiencing rampant evil, sin, and death? One of the big reasons why I think this way is that the signs of the times point to what Jesus said would be indications of his return. It would be as “in the Days of Noah” and “as in the Days of Lot.” (These are links to previous writings on this subject at my former blog).
We are experiencing a great falling away here in America, while at the same time many (including former Muslims) are coming to Christ in record numbers within other war-torn nations.
Thank you for commenting and I hope you will continue to visit and share your insights here!
In Christ,
Christine
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May 17, 2016 at 11:52 am
A-men!
Anyone who conducts an HONEST examination of the factual evidence will either have to believe, or deny the self-evident. That’s what Lee Strobel did. As a committed Atheist, he set out to prove Jesus was a myth. He ended up gathering enough evidence to PROVE IN A U.S. COURT OF LAW that Jesus is EVERYTHING the Bible claims He is. (Strobel is a lawyer — and now, a believer, as well).
For example: scoffers seldom seem to care that some 20+ sources OUTSIDE of the Bible confirm the life and crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. We can even date the day and time He died — thanks to a recording by at least 3 people in three different geographical regions who ALL recorded the very phenomenon the Bible reports at the time of Christ’s death. The sky went dark and there was a massive earth quake. These people were too far apart for this to have been an eclipse (especially since Jesus died on the full moon), or for the earth quake to be of a normal type. These events were global, and it is recorded in non-Biblical history.
The truth is there. People just CHOOSE to ignore/reject it.
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May 17, 2016 at 1:59 pm
You are correct, Joe! The thing is, many people (especially the younger generations) these days do not even read books anymore…no less the Bible! They get their news and information via Facebook and Twitter. Or, from the comedians on late night TV.
As you had written, Strobel took the time to investigate what is out there about Jesus Christ. He sought out not only the Bible accounts, but also non-Biblical historian writings. It is truly sad that many today are unwilling to do the same kind of investigation.
I also heard that the original author of the book that became the classic movie “Ben Hur” became a believer and his journey to Christ is an interesting one.
People can come up with all kinds of objections for not believing in Jesus Christ. They can easily reject Him because of such objections. Our job, as Christians, is to share the Gospel with whomever we can. If it is rejected…then so be it. But what a joy it is when someone does accept Christ as Lord and Savior of their lives! That joy of even just one person becoming a believer makes those who object (and reject) the message worth the effort!
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May 17, 2016 at 5:05 pm |
I would need to say that belief came first – where I made the decision to repent through confession of my sins at the foot of the cross of Christ, and thus ask Jesus to be Lord and Savior over my life through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
IOW: believe, THEN understand. Funny how that’s never applied in any other area of life except religion. You don’t have to have belief in internal combustion engines to understand them. That’s the best thing about science: it works whether or not people believe in it.
Your excuse to not examine each prophecy is just that…an excuse.
You spend four paragraphs NOT answering my more important questions, i.e. the conditions under which I could respond, and then you tell me I’m making an excuse not to examine them! If you really believe that I wouldn’t, then why did you send me the links?
Do you expect me to examine each prophecy point by point? I’ve already examined some of them, but I assumed you wanted a response from me. Just shoving 300 alleged proofs at me to shut me up won’t work.
That could take years, and the world moves on. A look back at your previous sites will show the bones of many threads you’ve abandoned where I’m involved. I’ll be glad to dissect each prophecy point by point, but I expect you’ll stop reading/publishing them before Independence Day. You’ll certainly have moved on to new subjects before then.
Or are there one or two unassailable prophecies that you’d like to dare me to dispute? Of 300 prophecies, there must be one or two that would particularly comfort the believer and confound the unbeliever. I thought you might have highlighted those. But no, you’ve simply chosen to throw the equivalent of the Guinness Book at me and expect me to not comment at all.
As you like to remind me, this is your blog. Set the rules for this and I will follow them, but you’d better stay for all 300 of them, however long that takes. If you do, you should make it its own topic. After all, the focus of this one was Judgment USA, wasn’t it?
B3A boasts of the “3 people in three different geographical regions who ALL recorded the very phenomenon the Bible reports at the time of Christ’s death”. But darkening skies at midday and earthquakes hardly qualify as supernatural phenomena…not any more, anyway. That phenomenon of dead men walking and preaching, however: provide extra-biblical proof of that, and you’ve really got something to talk about.
Unless, of course, that falls under the ‘hyperbole’ defense you’ve used before, hostess.
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May 17, 2016 at 10:26 pm |
GM,
Would any further discussion on this topic or the “dropped threads” you are complaining about make any difference to you and your own beliefs?
Answer: NO!
Therefore, it would be a waste of my time to go through them all with you.
I answered your request to point out the 300+ prophecies in Scripture that Christ has fulfilled. What you do with that information is your business.
Yes. The focus of this particular post was whether or not America is under judgment. Some have agreed, others haven’t.
Joe and I are now in a discussion about the writings of Jonathan Cahn. He has read The Harbinger, I have not. I have read excerpts that appear to show prophecy regarding the parallels between ancient Israel and America today, but I’m still learning from Joe about it all.
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May 17, 2016 at 10:31 pm |
“GM,
Would any further discussion on this topic or the “dropped threads” you are complaining about make any difference to you and your own beliefs?
Answer: NO!
Therefore, it would be a waste of time my to go through them all with you.”
Pearls before…
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May 17, 2016 at 10:42 pm
Corrected where I should have placed “my” in that comment.
Hey Joe…I just discovered another website that discusses The Prophet Joel: The Coming Restoration of Israel and the Day of the Lord; including the significance of the 4 blood moons.
The author lists the books of the Tanakh (Old Covenant) including the Hebrew names of each prophet. Boy, do I have a lot of reading to do there! Skimmed through and it looks fascinating!
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May 17, 2016 at 10:45 pm
As you study, take care with the phrase “Day of the Lord.”
WE assume it means the last day — ever. But the ancient Hebrew would NOT have necessarily understood it that way. The original Hebrew can and often does mean “The day the Lord acts!!!”
As with most things in the Bible, context is EVERYTHING! 🙂
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May 18, 2016 at 2:38 am |
”I answered your request to point out the 300+ prophecies in Scripture that Christ has fulfilled. What you do with that information is your business.”
Okay. That means that this:
”Speaking of prophecy… do you still have nothing more to say about (plus, the proof I gave you with a link to them all) Jesus Christ fulfilling over 300 prophecies (with more to be fulfilled at His Second Coming) in the Bible?”
was entirely unnecessary. You don’t care what I’d answer. But you felt you just had to say something.
If I had had a ready response to every one of those supposed prophecies, would it have made any difference to you and your own beliefs?
Answer: NO!
Therefore, it would be a waste of my time to go through them all with you.
Sound familiar?
I’ve been following your discussion, of course. It’s interesting how B3A appears to believe the Jews are doing it all wrong, and how many of the trappings of Judaism you’ve adopted without accepting the rest of it; especially since the Jews know more about this god than any Christian does. He’s their god, after all.
It really is interesting to see who has the correct fairytale. Centuries of discussion and conflict, and the world hasn’t reached a consensus yet!
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May 18, 2016 at 2:56 am
Isaiah 5:21 would seem to apply o you, GM
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May 18, 2016 at 4:13 am
You can add Proverbs 1:26 to that, too.
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May 18, 2016 at 11:57 am
Given that Proverbs 1:26 most certainly does apply to those such as yourself. The fact that you would willingly and (apparently) scoffingly add it on to yourself (and accept it) is proof of that.
I pray for you, GM. I really do. You have no idea what you are inviting. I do not wish your fate on ANYONE! Therefore, I pray the Lord will open your eyes, ears and heart so that you might still turn from the path you’re on.
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May 19, 2016 at 7:23 am
Why, B3A? Isn’t it possible I was ‘marked out’ since before the beginning of the world for this? And wouldn’t it be defying your god’s will if I was?
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May 19, 2016 at 11:55 am
GM,
He is God — period! That means He made you, too. And yes, if you are going to consciously refuse Him, then I suppose you were marked out before time began. HOWEVER, we must have free will to some extent — even if it is only to freely chose or refuse Him. It is the only way Scripture can make sense without contradicting itself. Luckily, it IS possible for you and I to have free will and for God to be TOTALLY Sovereign at the same time! They do not contradict, they only appear to do so.
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May 19, 2016 at 2:30 pm
Hey, GM,
Since you like to miss-use or take God’s Word out of context to accuse Him, let me ask you a question. Since God ALSO said He knows us before He knit us in our mother’s womb, do you think — maybe — God speaks to us from a position outside of time? I mean, maybe He set things in motion, saw who was going to be for Him and who against and then chose that way and came back to tell us from the beginning of the story (as we see it)???
I mean, did you think of that before you scoffed?
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May 19, 2016 at 5:52 pm
Yes, I did. That would mean I have no free will whatsoever, despite what Christine has claimed. It means I’m simply following the script, no ad-libs allowed. I can’t write my own ending to the story.
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May 19, 2016 at 6:12 pm
I expected as much. I feel sorry for you, GM. I’ll keep praying for you, because I care — even if you don’t.
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May 20, 2016 at 3:25 am
Pray for me? Really?! I’d been given the impression that I was no longer worthy of your notice!
By all means, do. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg, and I wouldn’t dream of telling you that you can’t. Just don’t expect me to join you.
Now go back to your ‘judgment call’ and I’ll just keep quiet and listen in.
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May 18, 2016 at 3:36 am
OK, GM, amuse me by explaining all of this away — but remember, this post stands as a whole. You have to deal with it that way, or you have failed to defeat it:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm
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May 18, 2016 at 4:13 am
I provide other points of view, B3A; it is not my task to ‘defeat’ yours. That is for the readers to decide.
Also, I am not here for your amusement. If that’s what you want, buy a PlayStation®.
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May 18, 2016 at 11:53 am
GM,
People offer ‘points of view’ all the time. But that does not mean they offer a WELL REASONED or HONEST ‘point of view.’ You do not. Your ‘points of view’ are so filled with fallacious reasoning that, well, honestly? It makes one wonder: Are you really so ignorant of logic? Or just that insulting to those who believe differently from you?
For example: your comments to me about what YOU say I think of the Jews is evidence of my accusation. Those who read Scripture know Christianity is in the OT. Jeremiah tells the Jews there WILL be a New Covenant. Isaiah tells them God is 3-in-one. The Bible tells them Christ will be a suffering servant, and will be rejected and executed on a tree (i.e. the cross). I have NEVER said otherwise. Those who read my posts and comments know that I see Jews and Christians as brothers. The OT tells us it is true (the domestic and wild olive tree/vine). SO, for you to make the accusation you did shows either willful ignorance or deliberate malice. There is very little room for middle ground.
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May 18, 2016 at 4:29 am
It’s quite obvious to all Christians who post here exactly what you are here for, GM.
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May 18, 2016 at 5:37 am
You knew from day one I was a disbeliever, Christine; I didn’t come here under a false flag. I make no secret that I think you’re wrong.
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May 18, 2016 at 2:21 pm
More specifically, GM, you had previously written, “I was once a Christian, now I am not” on your profile page. Now you have changed your profile and removed that claim.
So which is it? Was that statement true or is your derogatory statement that is now on your profile true?
It probably doesn’t even matter.
Wow…for those who haven’t looked up Proverbs 1:26
I’m glad that Joe was able to educate you a bit regarding your continually unsubstantiated claim that Yahweh is only “their” (The Jews) God.
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May 19, 2016 at 7:12 am
…GM, you had previously written, “I was once a Christian, now I am not” on your profile page. Now you have changed your profile and removed that claim.
So which is it? Was that statement true or is your derogatory statement that is now on your profile true?
As you noted earlier, it should be obvious to all that I am not a Christian anymore. There’s no need to repeat it in my profile.
I believed I was a Christian. Later, I discovered that I wasn’t. My ‘derogatory’ statement still stands, and it’s still true.
You believe in gods, and curses, “signs in the heavens” and demons. If that makes your life simpler, fine. But it does nothing for mine.
You’ve consulted with soothsayers…until I pointed it out, and you promptly took that down from your profile. Does that mean you weren’t a real Christian then? Or was astrology, for you, just another way of knowing mystical stuff?
That probably doesn’t matter either.
I’m glad that Joe was able to educate you a bit regarding your continually unsubstantiated claim that Yahweh is only “their” (The Jews) God.
I didn’t say Yahweh was ‘only’ their god. I just said he was theirs, and because he’s been theirs for longer than Christianity has existed, the Jews might be expected to know more about him than any Christian would. He’s their god, and you johnny-come-latelies worship him! (I’m noting B3A’s metaphor of being ‘grafted onto the vine’ as I write this.)
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May 19, 2016 at 11:51 am
GM,
You might think the Jews would know more, but Yahweh partially blinded them to Him/Christ. You might want to at least try to acknowledge the full text and context of the Scriptures before you try to make such sweeping statements. It might help you avoid making so many obvious mistakes. I’m just saying 🙂
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May 20, 2016 at 3:38 am
Did Yahweh tell you that? If it’s true, then I guess that he really doesn’t want us to know him, contrary to what I was told as a child. Why would he hide the truth from his Chosen People®, but reveal it to the Gentiles? Oh, right, because god does not play favorites. Yeah.
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May 20, 2016 at 11:46 am
Yes, Yahweh DID tell me that. He told us ALL this fact. He even said why He did it — for the benefit of the Gentiles. But then, you don’t care anything about Yahweh or His Word. You do not seek to understand or accept. You revel in scoffing, which means dealing with you is casting pearls before swine.
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May 20, 2016 at 3:30 pm
Joe,
As you most likely have surmised already, replying to GM is usually fruitless. However, the wider audience here may be benefitting greatly from God’s Word, the Christian study links, and what we share in our conversations.
When a person shuts off their mind, heart, soul and spirit from the truth, no amount of convincing evidence can get through. Very sad…
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May 20, 2016 at 3:48 pm
Christi,
I know. It is the only reason I bother to reply to him at all (for the sake of those reading along). Otherwise, I’d leave him to his choices (and reward 😦 )
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May 20, 2016 at 4:45 pm
Yes…unfortunately GM isn’t here to discuss and learn. It is very evident that he is here to mock, scorn and ridicule.
I greatly appreciate your comments and links. I’m learning so much by what you share here! Thanks!
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May 20, 2016 at 5:11 pm
Christi,
When you get the time, I posted a piece about how I see things in the world (this one deals with Cain). I’ll post another later tonight. They tie together, so they may interest you (if you have time over the weekend).
God bless
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May 19, 2016 at 1:45 pm
GM,
If I recall correctly, Blogger would not allow me to post the profile page until all the blanks were filled out. I tried to eliminate the astrology sign requirement, but being the “techie challenged” person that I am, was unable to delete it from the profile.
Here at Word Press, this wasn’t a requirement.
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May 19, 2016 at 2:35 pm
Great link Joe! Weeks, if not months of study via all the information and links!
I got to the part where it is said that the Dome of the Rock was built over the wrong rock! I have heard that before, but it was nice to get additional confirmation about it!
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May 19, 2016 at 2:43 pm
Christi,
The beauty of what the Lord has revealed to brother Skolfield is that it is a formula. We have to convert back and forth from the Hebrew to modern calendars according to who a given prophecy is addressing, but, once you do that, you don’t have to ‘force’ anything to fit. It all falls into place from one starting point. What’s more, it was impossible to understand until 1967. So, IF Skolfield has been shown the Truth (and I believe he has), the last book/week/prophecy of Daniel has been opened up. That means we are no longer in “The Last Days,” we are now in “The End Times!”
Time is short!
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May 19, 2016 at 3:32 pm
Joe,
The song that immediately came to my mind (and brings tears to my eyes!) after reading at that link is this one:
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May 19, 2016 at 5:01 pm
I know it. Love it. AMEN! 🙂
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May 18, 2016 at 5:36 pm |
[…] Talk Wisdom's goal is to defend the tenets and values of Biblical Christian faith. We defend our Constitutional Republic and Charters of Freedom, especially when speaking out against destructive social and political issues. As followers of our Savior and Lord, we should boldly stand up for Jesus Christ in our present circumstances. He is our Savior, Lord, and King, and His love needs to be shed abroad in our hearts and in our world – now. « Is America Under Judgment? […]
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May 19, 2016 at 3:34 pm |
Reposting video:
Link In case video does not play at this site:
YouTube: Revelation Song
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May 19, 2016 at 3:48 pm |
Another version!
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May 20, 2016 at 10:33 pm |
Well! This thread started off wondering if America was being judged, and appears to end with me being judged. Not that that’s unusual; in recent correspondence “gnat” was explicit; “swine” was implied. But I’ll leave that be. If that’s the price to be paid for speaking out against codified superstition, I’ll carry that weight.
While I’m sure you will be pleased to know that you, hostess, and B3A are not in the minority in wondering about divine judgment, this piece asks a more relevant question; how did you help bring such judgment about? What about the significant number of evangelicals who’ll probably vote for Trump, despite their following the same book and believing the same god you do?
If your prophecies told you this would happen, this should be cause for self-examination, not for looking into your scriptures seeking more details.
If you want to say prayers for me, B3A, go ahead; I can’t stop you. But I can’t use them. Give ’em to the candidates, because 315 million people—and maybe billions beyond—will be affected by what they do. Just sayin’.
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May 20, 2016 at 11:19 pm |
So…telling Joe and I that we are for “codified superstition” is less insulting than calling you a “gnat” and implied as “swine?”
GM wrote:
One has never “arrived” when it comes to studying and learning from Scripture – at least not on this side of heaven.
To answer your question about evangelicals supporting Trump, please re-read my Syncretism Stew post. Explains a lot about those who would label themselves under the stew mix of “Evangelical,” rather than being true, born-again, Bible-based Christians. This gives credence to Jesus’ words in these Bible verses:
Mat 7:13
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Mat 7:14
“Because[fn] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Add on these verses, too:
Mat 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22
“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
Luk 13:22
And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.
Luk 13:23
Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?” And He said to them,
Luk 13:24
“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Luk 13:25
“When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’
Luk 13:26
“then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’
Luk 13:27
“But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’
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May 20, 2016 at 11:37 pm
Christi,
For the sake of others, I wish to explain something that GM and those like him cannot see (because they are blind to Truth). When such people accuse us of believing in superstition, they commit a fallacy. Superstition is a belief in magic or luck and driven by fear of the unknown. Those who believe in Yahweh are not afraid in this sense. Nor do we believe in something that is unknown or luck. So, by definition, we are not superstitious. That means the people who throw that word at us are not only ignorant, but committing a second fallacy (ad hominem — or insult).
Such people are in the dark. They cannot see their own ignorance. This makes them superstitious. They fear what they do not know (God). They often do believe in luck. And they think they can control things through their rituals (they call it ‘science’). But none of it is real.
For example: scoffers think we are ‘superstitious’ because we believe God created the universe. Well, that is not only rational, it is scientifically defensible. What cannot be defended by science is the notion that the universe came from nothing and without cause. That violates at least 3 of the laws scoffers claim as ‘proof’ that believers are superstitious (‘no free lunch,’ conservation of energy/information, equal and opposite reaction).
The Truth is, believers have a sound, valid and rational explanation for everything in this universe — scoffers do not. They wave magic wands at the things they do not understand. They invented ‘evolution,’ and cling to it as fact — even though all the evidence says the THEORY is WRONG! They say the universe is eternal, even though that is impossible (at least according to the laws of physics — which is the only law they say are real). And they say there is no hereafter, which begs the question: if they are finite beings, how can they even envision the concept of eternity??? They can teach higher primates to communicate, but you know what those apes have never done? Mention the concept of eternity! It is a philosophical principle that the finite cannot understand the infinite, so the very fact that scoffers can understand infinity enough to claim it as an explanation bears witness to that aspect of humanity that is eternal.
But GM and his fellow scoffers will reject all of this. It is like telling the superstitious that their magic is not real: their fear will drive them to lash out. But you and I? We can live in peace because we have the assurance that comes from knowing the Creator, and the end of the story — which He told us before everything even began 🙂
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May 21, 2016 at 12:45 am
So beautifully stated…Amen!
I am reminded of a book that I read years ago entitled Moral Relativism. The subtitle states, “Feet firmly planted in mid-air.”
[Note correction: Oops… book was entitled: Relativism: Feet Firmly Planted in Mid-Air and the book covered all types of relativism, including moral relativism.]
That is an apt description of those who do not believe in God and reject, (or refuse to acknowledge) the existence of absolute truth.
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May 21, 2016 at 5:21 pm |
[…] question asked in my previous post – Is America Under Judgment? – brought forth more than 60 comments of conversation. Well, I have another type of post to […]
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