Hard Hearts Need to be Broken

As we look around the world today, there is no doubt about the proclamation of biblical truth which tells us that the closer we get to the end times, “the love of many will grow cold.”

Mat 24:12

“And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

In fact, read the entire account in Matthew 24!

This passage begins with the disciples asking Christ what the signs will be of His return.

Mat 24:3

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Jesus begins with a warning:

Mat 24:4

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.

Deception, in its many forms, runs deep today!

  •  Radical Islam and the satanic terrorism they invoke in order to kill, steal and destroy.
  • The lying and deceitful false flag operations of our government in order to brain-dirty the minds of the people against our second amendment rights.
  • The “black lives matter” movement propaganda designed to entice the ignorant to hate and kill police, white people, babies in the womb and anyone else they deem unworthy or matters little in this life.
  • The lies and treasonous acts of politicians that go unchallenged and unpunished.

I could spend the entire day listing all of the deceptions going on! And, if you read all of Matthew 24 you will notice how accurately Jesus predicted the future [NOW!] where we would experience the “birth pangs” of the end times!

There are politicians out there – some better than others – who are using great sounding slogans to get voters to follow their campaigns in the hopes of becoming the next President of the United States.

Make America Great Again” – Donald Trump

“A New American Century” – Marco Rubio

“Courageous Conservatives, Reigniting the Promise of America” – Ted Cruz

“Heal, Inspire, and Revive” – Ben Carson

“Join Us to Restore a Safer, Stronger, Freer America” – Jeb Bush

“Donate to my campaign” – Hillary Clinton [Well, that’s what I saw before being able to view her campaign site!]

“Can you make a contribution to our campaign?” – Bernie Sanders Further down in the paragraph he says, “I believe America is ready for a new path to the future.” [Hey Bernie! Socialism DOES NOT WORK and has been a disaster the many decades to those nations that have succumbed and suffered under despots teetering on [and then enacting]  communism!]

No matter who becomes president, the mess inherited from B. Insane 0bama will be awful! It will take decades to fix and it will probably get even much worse over the next year of  fairy tale “climate change,” taking away gun rights, as well as socialism and Islamism being pushed upon us!  The “cope with the chains” that have continually been illegally put upon Americans over the past 7 years of devastation will take a lot of time to unravel and most likely would never be solved by one presidential term!

Being Christians, we know that by following and adhering to Christ we are not to be of this world.

Rom 12:2

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

So, what is the antidote against the many ills of this fallen world?

As you will notice, the antidote is not what worldly adherents would tell you!

The Bible tells us:

Psa 34:18

The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart,
And saves such as have a contrite spirit.

Psa 51:17

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

When I ran a message board back in 2007, a visitor named “Rocky” often posted very profound messages that he wrote in prose through his  study of the Bible and the Gospel of Christ. I would like to share one of them which discusses the need for us all to understand that “Hard Hearts Need to be Broken.”

~ Christine

*******

Hard Hearts Need to be Broken

by Rocky Chambers

I saw crumbs falling from the table of God

Many were hungry dogs ravenously devouring these crumbs

Then I saw that each dog was a man I knew

And that each crumb was something that had fallen into this world

These desires where endless appetites, as hunger and thirst that could never be quenched

I looked and I saw some crumbs in my own hands

The Lord then said to me, ‘put those down son and come eat at my table’

I answered, ‘what about these, will they not come too’?

The Lord answered,  ‘these are those of whom it is written,

‘you have forsaken me the spring of living waters

You have dug your own cistern which can not hold water’

I pondered the meaning of this and then the Lord continued,

‘these are like dogs at the children’s table

Although they eat, they are never satisfied

The crumbs from my table whet their appetites

But they never come to the table to eat with me

They are always discontented and dissatisfied

Their hearts are bitter and calloused

Their desires weary and fatigue them

They are like restless and discontented children’

Ever demanding this or that but are never contented

They do not know the secret to contentment

Their desires wound them and disturb them

Like wind blowing across open waters brings the sea to a rage

Their hearts are troubled and easily become enraged

This is their bitterness and what hardens their hearts’

Then I saw my heart on a great anvil

The Lord brought down a great hammer and struck it with a mighty blow

My heart was broken and I wept bitterly

The tears were the bitterness of my heart being poured out

Then as I looked again the Lord had replaced my heart with a new heart

A hearing heart, a heart of flesh

And He said, ‘If only they would be broken

Hard hearts need to be broken

Then they would hear, and turn and I would heal them

Then they would become land that drinks in the water

That produces a crop useful to me’

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46 Responses to “Hard Hearts Need to be Broken”

  1. GMpilot Says:

    According to the best0selling book about him, your god likes to break nations almost as much as he likes breaking men. He’s even done it to his Chosen People™ on several occasions. Despite the hubris so often shown here, there is no reason to believe the United States is exempt from the divine fury.

    So are you warning us against it, or celebrating its arrival? And if things don’t turn out as you expect, will your heart be broken?

    Like

    • Black3Actual Says:

      GM,

      NO! America is NOT exempt. In fact, we are more accountable than most. 9/11 was a warning from God. I know from past experience that your mockery is evidence of a hard heart, but — if you ever want to seek the Truth in this matter — try to read the book, “The Harbinger,” by Rabbi Chan. It will explain that America is currently under the same curse as the 10 Northern Tribes given by Isaiah.

      Like

  2. christinewjc Says:

    Where did I state that “the United States is exempt from the divine fury?”

    As a believer in Jesus Christ, it is my duty to warn others about what is coming. We do not know the day nor hour, but we can recognize the “birth pangs” of the coming tribulation. It’s time to get right with God!

    My heart has already been broken. The sacrificial death of Christ on the cross for my behalf still saddens me to this very day. But the need for the confession and repentance of my sins at the foot of the cross is God’s plan of redemption; so I humbly and gratefully accept it.

    Of course, I understand God’s plan in that divine act of mercy, grace, love and salvation; so I can celebrate what is to come because of what believers have to look forward to according to the End Times prophecies in the Bible.

    1. The Rapture of the church (all believers).
    2. The Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Christ).
    3. Christ’s Second Coming at the end of the age to end the Great Tribulation.
    4. Ending the war of Babylon with His mighty sword (spoken word) and bringing in the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth.

    Like

  3. Black3Actual Says:

    Christine,

    Solid post! And a great message. It is right in line with something the Lord has put on my heart to write. You’ll see it on the OYL soon, and you’ll know it is the message I just mentioned when you do. It is the same message the Lord gave you to write here — which is one way we can know we have found God’s people: they are usually on the same SPIRITUAL page.

    God bless 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

    • christinewjc Says:

      Thank you!

      The Lord is showing us where are hearts should be at this time and we feel a burden to speak the truth! Not everyone will listen and some will even hate us for sharing the truth.

      I look forward to reading your next post!

      May God continue to bless you!

      Like

  4. GMpilot Says:

    Perhaps the both of you should re-read my first sentence.
    I never meant to imply that the United States was exempt from divine wrath, only that the deity seems to like doing it. With so many Christian leaders claiming that that god ‘raised up’ this country for one purpose or other, I point out that this same god has cast down nations, too, including his much-beloved Israel, according to the stories.

    So you are celebrating this breaking of hearts, Christine? You admit your anticipation of raptures and lamb suppers and all the rest. That sounds as if you’re looking forward to the wars and otherworldy devastation headed our way…oh yeah, I forgot, you won’t be here to participate in it. How nice.

    B3A, there seems to be some dispute about what happened to the 10 Lost Tribes. We know they were exiled, but that’s not exactly the same as “lost” (unless you mean they’d lost their way spiritually,of course). If America is under the same curse as the 10 Northern Tribes of another time and place, doesn’t that mean that god is not all-benevolent? I’ve always thought only evil gods cursed people. (I was also unaware that calling them the “Lost Tribes” is now unfashionable; thank you for that.)

    Like

    • Black3Actual Says:

      You accusing God of ‘liking’ to judge nations is fallacious. God is perfect justice. If a covenant nation goes wrong, He is BOUND to pass judgment — just as any judge is “supposed” to be bound by the law and requirements of enforcing it.

      As for the other nations: if you do not live according to God’s natural laws, then His natural laws will destroy you — because that is how they work. So, again, you are falsely accusing God.

      As for the ‘dispute’ over the ten lost tribes: recent Archaeology has pretty much figured out where most of them went:

      http://www.amazon.com/Missing-Links-Discovered-Assyrian-Tablets/dp/0934666156/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1452218621&sr=8-1&keywords=missing+links+discovered

      Liked by 1 person

    • christinewjc Says:

      GM,

      You continue to not “get” what we share regarding the Gospel of Christ. Salvation is an individual spiritual experience, not a collective one. Within the salvation experience, one must humble him/herself, repent of sin, follow Jesus and the leading of the Holy Spirit of God within the soul. Non-believers and superficial “Christians” have not done that, therefore, they look at the need to have one’s heart broken as a bad thing.

      Read the prose, written by Rocky Chambers in the post again. Note this portion:

      My heart was broken and I wept bitterly

      The tears were the bitterness of my heart being poured out

      Then as I looked again the Lord had replaced my heart with a new heart

      A hearing heart, a heart of flesh

      And He said, ‘If only they would be broken

      Hard hearts need to be broken

      Then they would hear, and turn and I would heal them

      Then they would become land that drinks in the water

      That produces a crop useful to me’

      The U.S. was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and ethics, but much of the current population today rejects what the Founders believed. What was known back then enabled the Founders to form “a more perfect union.” Today, our founding documents are being trashed and trampled upon by the political elites; much to the detriment of We The People.

      The U.S. was never perfect, but we were guided by the God who is perfect! When people reject God, they do so at their own peril. They all need their hearts replaced with a new heart by the Lord. God tells us that when they do, they would hear and turn, and God would heal them. This is a spiritual action that can only come about through Jesus Christ our Lord.

      Like

  5. GMpilot Says:

    B3A: You accusing God of ‘liking’ to judge nations is fallacious. God is perfect justice. If a covenant nation goes wrong, He is BOUND to pass judgment — just as any judge is “supposed” to be bound by the law and requirements of enforcing it.
    I’m not accusing it of anything. That’s merely an observation. I also mentioned that the god breaks both nations and men, as our hostess has said. I’m pretty sure that ‘to break’ is not quite the same as ‘to judge’. Unless, of course, you feel that breaking the lawbreaker is what a judge is “supposed” to do.

    As for the other nations: if you do not live according to God’s natural laws, then His natural laws will destroy you — because that is how they work. So, again, you are falsely accusing God.
    There, fixed that for you.

    As for the ‘dispute’ over the ten lost tribes: recent Archaeology has pretty much figured out where most of them went:
    ”Could this possibly be so? If so it would mean that the majority of Christendom and the rest of society has misidentified the people most prominent in the Bible. If Israel has been misidentified there is no doubt that major errors in doctrinal interpretation and application of biblical prophecy have been made!”
    –from the blurb on Amazon.com

    I acknowledge that it could be so. The author has an archaeological hypothesis; now he should try to corroborate it with an anthropological one, especially as he claims that “many Christians may have much more Hebrew-Israelite blood in their veins than most of their Jewish neighbors.” I’m sure that modern-day Syrians meet that criterion easily, but Hungarians not so much. Since you appear to have read it, you could tell me the results in short form…that is, unless you still believe that “to offer any meaningful comment AND explain everything about my background requires far more than the average person will bother to read”.

    Like

  6. GMpilot Says:

    Looks like the fix didn’t work. I’ll try again:

    As for the other nations: if you do not live according to natural laws, then natural laws will destroy you — because that is how they work.

    And you can’t circumvent them by pleading to a supernatural being, either. Good, we agree on that.

    Like

  7. GMpilot Says:

    CJW: You continue to not “get” what we share regarding the Gospel of Christ. Salvation is an individual spiritual experience, not a collective one.
    Didn’t I say just that about “calling”, a few posts ago? Isn’t that part of the spiritual experience too?

    The U.S. was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and ethics, but much of the current population today rejects what the Founders believed.
    Well, some of the Founders, anyway. I shudder to think how you might treat your slaves.

    When people reject God, they do so at their own peril. They all need their hearts replaced with a new heart by the Lord. God tells us that when they do, they would hear and turn, and God would heal them.
    But first those hearts must be broken, so god breaks them. Like a surgeon who goes out and causes accidents so that he may heal the victims. I “get” it.
    Spiritual actions are harder to detect (and no blood can be seen), but the hearts are still broken, and ready to repair or replace.

    Like

  8. christinewjc Says:

    God’s Word in Psalms says it best:

    Psa 34:18

    The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart,
    And saves such as have a contrite spirit.

    Psa 51:17

    The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
    A broken and a contrite heart—
    These, O God, You will not despise.

    Understanding the exact meaning of these particular words helps too:

    International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia

    Brokenhearted:

    bro’-k’-n-har-ted (shabhar lebh; suntetrimmenoi ten kardian; Ps 69:20,21; Isa 61:1; Lu 4:18 the King James Version; “of a broken heart,” Ps 34:18; “broken in heart,” Ps 147:3): People who feel their spiritual bankruptcy and helplessness, and who long for the help and salvation of God. Such people are in the right condition to be met and blessed by God. Compare “of contrite spirit” (Ps 31:18; Isa 66:2).

    con-trite
    adjective

    1.

    caused by or showing sincere remorse.

    2.

    filled with a sense of guilt and the desire for atonement; penitent:
    a contrite sinner.

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    • Black3Actual Says:

      Just remember that the words Scripture uses and we translate as ‘heart’ mean much more than feelings (which is what most Westerners understand ‘heart’ to mean). It means your complete being: your will directing you actions and desires. So, a broken heart is as much a broken will / pride as it is a broken spirit. It is a person who has given up their self and submitted to their maker.

      This is why GM and others like him cannot see God: they refuse to surrender to Him. They cannot see past themselves. And I know as I was once like this: proud, arrogant, self-willed and unrepentant. I was TOTALLY deserving of God’s judgment (still am, but now I am washed in the blood of Christ).

      Liked by 1 person

  9. GMpilot Says:

    Well, of course a Bible Encyclopedia would say that. All religions have their own etymology, and often do not use a word the same way regular society does.
    Contrite[ness] is a word I perfectly understand and agree with. Broken is not. I am not a wild horse, to be ‘broken’ to the harness and saddle. My heart is not a toy to be ‘broken’ and tossed aside.

    When I have done wrong to someone, I do feel remorse, and I desire atonement—but only from the person I have wronged. If there is some all-powerful Lord of the Universe, the idea that I could possibly wrong him in any way whatever is laughable. If this god does not exist, the idea that I could possibly wrong him in any way whatever is also laughable. It would be like throwing marbles at a battleship, and expecting to sink it. I won’t waste good marbles on something that probably isn’t there.

    I do not believe in a god who promises me eternal pain because I disagree with him. I will not worship a god who would see me broken and contrite, like a conquered enemy, before he accepts me into his presence. But that’s the kind of god you’ve got, so don’t expect me to have anything to do with him, nor any of the thousands of other gods that have come and gone through history.

    Like

    • Black3Actual Says:

      If there is no God, then it is impossible to wrong anyone (except by your own standards). It would be as laughable to say a person can be wronged as to claim a lion wrongs a zebra when it kills and eats the zebra. There is no wrong there: just life. So, without a God, morality cannot exist as we are just lions and zebras. But you said you feel bad. Whether you know it or care to acknowledge it is irrelevant: this is proof of God. You cannot have morality in a universe without a moral law giver. So, if you feel bad, you are feeling God’s presence — EXACTLY as Romans 1-2 says.

      And before you tell me anything about you setting your own standards of right and wrong, understand that this does not do away with God. It is only evidence that you think you are a god. And it is further evidence of the True God as you are acknowledging th need for a moral law giver when you try to rationalize (which you have already done).

      Liked by 1 person

      • GMpilot Says:

        B3A: …So, without a God, morality cannot exist as we are just lions and zebras. But you said you feel bad. Whether you know it or care to acknowledge it is irrelevant: this is proof of God. You cannot have morality in a universe without a moral law giver. So, if you feel bad, you are feeling God’s presence — EXACTLY as Romans 1-2 says
        No, I feel bad because I remember that I wouldn’t want what I said (or did) to happen to me. I know that I can feel pain or be disappointed by events I cannot control, and when I realize that the other person is equally vulnerable and equally helpless before events, I sympathize. But your god does not fit that standard. We are constantly told how powerful and mighty he is—that he raises nations and casts down kings; that he can extinguish any one of us (or all of us) as easily as you or I could blow out a match. But our greatest fear, death? He knows nothing of this. In his book, god is always the one inflicting pain, suffering, and death, but never receiving it. He has been said to show some emotions—anger, love, fear—but one is left with the impression that he’s just trying them on, not that he actually has them.
        And since he is immortal, unlike us, he has all eternity to learn which ones ‘fit’.

        We are told he’s…what did you call it?…”perfect justice”. Yet he kills a few hundred innocents here, and a few thousand there, usually because one person pissed him off…and he rarely kills that one person. He prefers to leave him alive, in order to break his heart. That’s the only thing that hints at the supernatural.
        Disasters happen to large numbers of people almost every day, but there’s no evidence of divine fingerprints on any of it; people just tell themselves there is, and sacrifice an extra goat or contribute more cash. A god who can’t be distinguished from natural occurrences is the same as a nonexistent god. I can’t hurt a god who isn’t there.

        And before you tell me anything about you setting your own standards of right and wrong, understand that this does not do away with God. It is only evidence that you think you are a god.
        I can make mistakes, but god is said to be perfect, and a perfect being, by definition, cannot make mistakes. Therefore, I know I am not a god. And even if I were, I would not worship me, nor would I demand that anyone else do so. The whole world wouldn’t have to know who I am–I’d know, and that would be enough. Just like it is now.

        And it is further evidence of the True God as you are acknowledging th need for a moral law giver when you try to rationalize (which you have already done).
        This god gave us standards to abide by and then, it is reported, violated many of them himself. Yet Christians often rationalize on his behalf because “his ways are not our ways.”
        Considering some of the things this god is alleged to have done, it is right to say that as a moral lawgiver he is…lacking. If we do something that’s right only because he says it’s right, that’s not morality, that’s just obedience.

        Like

      • Black3Actual Says:

        GM,

        It is a simple matter of logic. For something to be moral, it must apply to all people equally. That is as much a universal law as anything else in physics. A law — by definition — requires a law giver. So, no law giver, no law. See? Basic logic — yet another indication that there is a God.

        But this is also why so many such as yourself have so much trouble with logic (and you do). To use logic PROPERLY, you have to acknowledge the source (God). That means you have to be humble (broken). You have shown us that this is not you, therefore, you can no more understand and use logic properly than you can any of God’s other laws. It is not an attack, GM: it is just a factual statement.

        Liked by 1 person

      • christinewjc Says:

        The first temptation of man by satan.

        Gen 3:5

        “For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

        Adam and Eve knew good and their relationship with God was “walking with Him” in paradise. Satan tempted them to “be like God” through not only knowing good, but also knowing evil. Mankind could have been spared from the horrible effects of evil if he remained walking with God rather than wanting to “be like God.” We were created to worship God, not to desire to become our own “gods.” But the evidence is clear. When man succumbs to temptation and sins, he is rejecting all of the positive attributes (i.e. holiness, righteousness, morality, wisdom etc.) of God. Knowing evil and acting upon it is not only sinful, but it is dangerous and deadly.

        So…what it the solution?

        Believing in Jesus Christ (The Gospel of Christ) rescues us from the consequences of eternal death.

        Like

  10. GMpilot Says:

    B3A: It is a simple matter of logic. For something to be moral, it must apply to all people equally. That is as much a universal law as anything else in physics. A law — by definition — requires a law giver. So, no law giver, no law. See? Basic logic — yet another indication that there is a God.
    People are born, and live, and die. Those are the only things I know of that apply to all people equally, and I think you’d have a very hard time establishing that one’s morals comes from that.
    Before we go any further with this, we’d better make sure we’re using the same words about the same thing, because what you’re calling morality sounds a lot like ethics or ethos. I need to know exactly what you mean by “moral”.

    But this is also why so many such as yourself have so much trouble with logic (and you do). To use logic PROPERLY, you have to acknowledge the source (God).
    I’m afraid you’re the one not using logic properly. Once you can demonstrate the actual existence of this God, THEN we can talk about whether or not it is the source of logic. Bring snacks, ’cause you’ll be here a long time.

    That means you have to be humble (broken). You have shown us that this is not you, therefore, you can no more understand and use logic properly than you can any of God’s other laws. It is not an attack, GM: it is just a factual statement.
    If God’s so-called ‘laws’ apply to all people equally, then anyone can use them…even me. Let’s find out.
    Come out swingin’!

    Like

  11. GMpilot Says:

    Good morning, hostess.

    CJW: “For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
    The Prince of Lies actually told the truth?! How about that!!

    Mankind could have been spared from the horrible effects of evil if he remained walking with God rather than wanting to “be like God.”
    You mean the failure of the Eden Project WASN’T part of his Great Plan? He didn’t foresee this event? Just as he apparently didn’t foresee civil war in heaven, with his Number Two and one-third of his angels going over to the Dark Side? What kind of all-powerful god didn’t make allowances for this?
    He threw Lucifer and his angels out of heaven, but he couldn’t keep one snake out of his kids’ playground? Pathetic.

    We were created to worship God, not to desire to become our own “gods.”
    So this is the ‘logic’ behind slavery: we were created to be someone else’s playthings, not to play by ourselves.

    Believing in Jesus Christ (The Gospel of Christ) rescues us from the consequences of eternal death.
    So does believing in Krishna. Let them slug it out, winner take all.

    It appears you and B3A have decided to tag-team me. If that’s how you wish to spend this holiday, have at it, and I will accommodate you.

    Like

    • christinewjc Says:

      GM,
      We have been through this line of attacks you spew against God before. A person who refuses the truth of the matter often skews such truth towards their own personal beliefs and mindset. After all of these years of sparring with you I realize that it is most likely that neither J nor I will get through to you regarding the gospel of Jesus Christ. Your hatred against the God of the Bible is very evident in every comment that you have made in this thread.

      What you perceive as “slavery” is in reality a form of worship towards the One who created us and gave us life. Worship simply means “worth ship” – that the Object of our worship is deserving of all our love because of Who He is.

      People “worship” other people (eg. “he worships her,” or “he worships the ground she walks on” regarding the one woman a man loves.) People worship the things on this earth. The love of money, for example.

      But the truth is that love, when given away is the greatest gift to both the recipient and the giver.

      Since I see God’s perfect love towards us through his son Jesus Christ, I understand why Jesus, in the sacrificial act of laying down his life for our sakes, is the greatest act of love in all of human history.

      What loving wife or mother doesn’t sacrifice for the sake of her husband or her children in this lifetime? What loving husband doesn’t do the same for his wife and children? These are just two examples of sacrificial love. There are many more acts of sacrificial love that we, as individuals, can give towards others in this life. Without sacrificial love, we can (unfortunately) become like robots – just going through the motions.

      You have the free will choice in this life to reject Christ and continue to argue against the God of the Bible. But it is to your own detriment to do so. J and I can only share the truth that God has revealed to us through His written word – Scripture, and His living Word, Jesus Christ. The salvation of ones’ soul is at stake. But each person has the free will choice to accept or reject it.

      So be it.

      As Christians, we see no greater love than what the Father and Son did to redeem us from our sins.

      Like

      • Black3Actual Says:

        CJ,

        Pearls before swine. One of the hardest things for you and I is to learn that, once we have tried to share the Gospel with others, it is not for us to open their hearts. They have to do that, and even then, we are told the Lord has to call them. Without the rest of the equation, we’re casting our pearls before swine. And this is the hard part: accepting that the Lord simply does not want some people to turn and be saved. After all, Jesus specifically said that He spoke in parables for that reason: so that certain people would not understand and accept salvation. I fear GM may be among this lot.

        So shake his dust from your feet and move on, sister. You have done what the Lord asks of you. There’s nothing left for you to do with GM. And if you have concern for your readers, then speak directly to them. Trying to continue with GM just muddies the message. 😦

        J

        Liked by 1 person

      • christinewjc Says:

        You and I both know that what you wrote here is the truth. After over 10 years of GM trying to “muddy the message,” I do realize that he probably will never accept what you and I have shared here to lead him to God and the Gospel of Christ. So be it.

        However, since there is a wider audience here it is my hope and prayer that the answers that you and I provide via God’s Word will help them – or at least lead them to study God’s Word and learn the truth for themselves.

        A Christian friend of mine once said that “we will never have all of the answers” for those whose minds have been blinded by the evil one. The refusal of such individuals to turn to God as Lord and Savior, and thus be saved, is really evident in many passages of Scripture…especially in the book of Revelation.

        Consider that even after Jesus walked the earth and preached the gospel of salvation, performed miracles, healed the sick and lame, confounded the so-called “righteous” (who were labeled as “white-washed tombs” by him), died on the cross and was resurrected to life – even after all of this visual evidence there were still many who refused to believe in Him. Rejection is part of the witnessing process. I hold onto the joy of those who I have seen reached by God through the “seeds” that I have tried to share with them. Even if just one person comes along, reads through this thread, and is led towards salvation in Jesus Christ, then it is worth the effort despite the fact that some will still reject Him. It is God, after all, who does the ultimate work of saving!

        I really appreciate the reminder that you provided regarding “pearls before swine” J. It tells me that I don’t need to continue battling with individuals like GM, for he may be (as you said) one of the millions who will forever reject the Gospel message of Christ for salvation.

        Found the following blog article yesterday and it’s a good read! Thought you might like to read it too!

        Donald Trump and the Message of the Cross.

        Oh…one more thing. The NY Daily News reported that Trump “made up a verse” from the Bible. Read the article and judge for yourself. It sounded like a paraphrase but funny how they jumped on him about it.

        Also, the news commentators are claiming that Trump “misquoted Scripture” during his speech at Liberty University. He said “Two Corinthians” instead of Second Corinthians.” That’s not misquoting Scripture! It is merely saying the reference incorrectly! I have read elsewhere that they do say “Two Corinthians” in England.

        The video doesn’t work at that link so you can see it HERE.

        I don’t particularly care for Trump as the next president, but I find that the media going apoplectic over his popularity is funny! Plus, the establishment RINOS hate him, and he is getting Dem voters away from Hillary.

        Trump is obviously a novice when it comes to Bible knowledge. Anyone can easily find a verse to fit ones’ audience. But the fact that Trump stated that, “I’m Not Sure I Have Ever Asked God For Forgiveness” is troublesome. Saying such a thing as that proves that he is so lost. Telling people that he “tries to be good” is sad because he probably thinks he can work his way to Heaven. When someone is so arrogant that they think they don’t need to ask for forgiveness then they are lost.

        Sorry about this long comment! I just thought you might like to read about this since we both agreed in the past (at your blog) that if Trump wins we might get stuck with another 0bama-in-disguise in 2016.

        Like

      • Black3Actual Says:

        CJ,

        I was thinking about my last comment to you — even before you replied here. I understand the need to speak to the lost. I share that compulsion with you. But you have done what you are required to do with GM. Penn, of Penn and Teller, once said that, if you believe there is a God and, if you do not accept Him, you will go to hell forever, and you do NOT share this information with others, that is the highest form of hate a person can have. I agree with Penn. However, you have done your best to share this Good News with GM. He has refused it — just as the Pharisees did (and they actually knew who Jesus was, yet they still rejected Him). So shake the dust from your feet and move on — lest you risk trying to claim the Holy Spirit’s job in saving people. Be careful not to cross that line (it is a danger I have to constantly guard myself against).

        As for Trump: I have been paying attention, and plan to address him on The OYL very soon. Trump is an example of someone who does not know the Bible, but thinks he can take a line or two and convince believers he believes in God. It does not matter if he believes in God. Satan believes in God. But are you saved? THAT is the question. If you use God’s Word as casually and as self-servingly as Trump did, what witness is that? HAT is how we should look at Trump — then draw our conclusions.

        Liked by 1 person

      • christinewjc Says:

        I could be wrong but I don’t think that anyone could even claim the Holy Spirit’s job in saving people. They might erroneously believe that, but Scripture is clear that God does the saving. Here is just one Bible verse that informs us of this fact:

        Psa 20:6

        Now I know that the LORD saves His anointed;
        He will answer him from His holy heaven
        With the saving strength of His right hand.

        I agree with what you have written regarding Trump and look forward to your upcoming post!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Black3Actual Says:

        True. I misspoke. I was thinking in terms of it is the Holy Spirit’s job to call people to and reveal God to them so that they will accept Him and place a saving faith in Him. Too many of us seem to think we are responsible for getting people to see the things that the Holy Spirit has to show them before they will believe. This is all I was trying to bring to mind.

        Liked by 1 person

      • christinewjc Says:

        I knew what you meant, J. 😉 Appreciate the clarification for the benefit of others.

        It takes faith first, then we will see clearly. That’s why Scripture informs us:

        Without faith it is impossible to please God.

        Heb 11:6

        But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

        This is also why Jesus said of the people:

        Jhn 4:48

        Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.”

        But then the man who sought out Jesus’ help with his child believed first!

        Jhn 4:49

        The nobleman said to Him, “Sir, come down before my child dies!”

        Jhn 4:50

        Jesus said to him, “Go your way; your son lives.” So the man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him, and he went his way.

        Jhn 4:51

        And as he was now going down, his servants met him and told him, saying, “Your son lives!”

        Jhn 4:52

        Then he inquired of them the hour when he got better. And they said to him, “Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.”

        Jhn 4:53

        So the father knew that it was at the same hour in which Jesus said to him, “Your son lives.” And he himself believed, and his whole household.

        Jhn 4:54

        This again is the second sign Jesus did when He had come out of Judea into Galilee.

        Liked by 1 person

  12. GMpilot Says:

    CJW:We have been through this line of attacks you spew against God before. A person who refuses truth of the matter often skews such truth towards their own personal beliefs and mindset.
    As you have also done, with the ACLU, Obama’s citizenship, and a host of other matters. You’ve got that beam in your eye again.

    After all of these years of sparring with you I realize that it is most likely that neither J nor I will get through to you regarding the gospel of Jesus Christ. Your hatred against the God of the Bible it’s very evident in every comment that you have made in this thread.
    The God of the Bible has done and will do some very hateful things. Why shouldn’t I speak out against that?!

    What you perceive as “slavery” is in reality a form of worship towards the One who created us and gave us life. Worship simply means “worth ship” – that the Object of our worship is deserving of our all our love because of Who He is.
    The most benevolent master is still a master; the most exalted slave is still a slave. All the flowery language in the world will not change that fact.

    People “worship” other people (eg. ” he worships the ground she walks on” regarding the one woman a man loves.”) as well as things on this earth. The love of money, for example. But the truth is that love, when given away is the greatest gift to both the recipient and the giver.
    Which is why a common bit of wisdom says “Be the person your dog thinks you are.” Their loyalty is the best example of love given away that enriches both recipient and giver.

    Since I see God’s perfect love towards us through his son Jesus Christ, I understand why Jesus, laying down his life for our sakes is the greatest act of love in all of history. What wife or mother doesn’t sacrifice for the sake of her husband or her children in this lifetime? What husband doesn’t do the same for his wife and children? These are just two examples of sacrificial love. There are many more that we as individuals can perform in this life.
    I’ll give you another one, which you consistently ignore: the soldier or police officer or firefighter who sacrifices him/herself for the sake of people they never met, and don’t know. Perhaps it might even be someone who, in other circumstances, they would avoid or even abuse.
    Jesus’ act was undeniably noble, but he didn’t do it for everyone:

    These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
    But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    –Matthew 10:5~6 (NKJV)

    And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”
    But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”
    But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    –Matthew 15:22~24 (NKJV)

    Even his post-resurrection directive, “Love ye one another, even as I have loved you,” could be interpreted as only applying to his fellow Jews. That “sacrifice for all mankind” part came along many years later. You’ve got the Apologetics certificate and studied the scrolls even more than most; you must know that.

    Without sacrificial love, we become like a robots – just going through the motions.
    Most believers are ‘just going through the motions’. And just like robots, they’re doing it because they’ve been programmed to. It’s all they know.
    But as a believer, that’s your problem, not mine.

    You have the free will choice in this life to reject Christ and continue to argue against the God of the Bible.
    But when I do, you scream at me about my ‘reprobate’ ways and ‘hateful’ words. Make up your mind—can I, or not?

    But it is to your own detriment to do so. J and I can only share the truth that God has revealed to us through His written word – Scripture, and His living Word, Jesus Christ. The salvation of ones’ soul is at stake. But each person has the free will choice to accept or reject it.
    So be it.

    There are over seven billion people on this world. Two-thirds of them have never encountered your preferred scripture. Of those who believe as you do, perhaps one in four have actually read it; and of that number, no three of them agree exactly on what it says. The very existence of so many Christian sects proves that. But you sit there and have the arrogance to tell me that you chose the right one.
    I don’t believe your claims. It’s as simple as that.
    And so it goes.

    See you in the other thread

    Like

  13. GMpilot Says:

    Congratulations, B3A, for revealing the truth that your Christ does not desire to save all mankind.

    And this is the hard part: accepting that the Lord simply does not want some people to turn and be saved. After all, Jesus specifically said that He spoke in parables for that reason: so that certain people would not understand and accept salvation.

    If an all-powerful god is “not willing that any should perish”, then no one shall perish. B3A, by quoting Jesus, makes it clear that people perishing is part of the Great Plan. I’d be terrified, if I believed it in the first place.

    There’s nothing left for you to do with GM. And if you have concern for your readers, then speak directly to them. Trying to continue with GM just muddies the message. 😦
    Does that mean you won’t be facing me, either? Okay. I learned long ago that bullies usually back down from someone who challenges them. ^_^

    Like

    • Black3Actual Says:

      God does not say it the way you are trying to frame it — which makes you an agent of Satan. Like Satan (which means adversary), you twist the truth. You include just enough to make it sound convincing, but you twist it none the less. You’re doing it again here. And it doesn’t help that you confound the problem with ignorance.

      God tells us He loves ALL of us — even Satan. God’s Word says He DOES wish for all of us to be saved. HOWEVER, God has also given us free will (at least in part where our salvation is concerned). If — before time — God declared that those who reject Him will not be granted salvation, then yes, if you refuse to accept Him, He does not wish you to be saved — but not because of any injustice as you’d like to make it, but BECAUSE God is Holy and Just! If God were to allow salvation to come to unrepentant sinners, then He would not be just and, therefore, not God.

      Now, play your games all you want, but understand — you are only playing to yourself. God will not be mocked. He WILL judge you. But God is also fair, and He WILL warn you. So, when that time comes when you start to claim you were never warned, remember CJ and I warned you — many times. And understand, it will be YOU who is responsible for the consequences and no one else.

      Liked by 1 person

      • GMpilot Says:

        Your interpretation is as interesting as mine, B3A, and just as contorted.

        God does not say it the way you are trying to frame it — which makes you an agent of Satan.
        That’s the problem with you Christers—any one not allied with your god must be a pawn of the other god. I don’t believe in him, either, and I don’t like the idea of being punted back and forth in a cosmic game of ping-pong. I’m done with both of them. If you’re going to use that ‘agent of Satan’ dodge instead of arguing your case properly, I can stop right here.
        Where’s that logic you were so boastful about?

        HOWEVER, God has also given us free will (at least in part where our salvation is concerned).”\
        Limited free will isn’t much of an improvement to my view. Remember what I said about exalted slaves?

        …yes, if you refuse to accept Him, He does not wish you to be saved — but not because of any injustice as you’d like to make it, but BECAUSE God is Holy and Just!
        Because he is holy, he will weep as he drops me into the pit…but he will drop me just the same, because he is just.
        Noted.

        God will not be mocked. He WILL judge you. But God is also fair, and He WILL warn you. So, when that time comes when you start to claim you were never warned, remember CJ and I warned you — many times. And understand, it will be YOU who is responsible for the consequences and no one else.
        If god is real and if he is just, he will judge me fairly; I will not need to fear, nor will I have any reason to complain. If he is not just, I would not want to spend eternity with him. Would you?
        I have always accepted the consequences for my actions since I hit puberty. I have no intention of blaming others now, unlike those who plan to waltz into heaven over the body of an innocent man.
        And stop shouting at me.

        Like

      • Black3Actual Says:

        GM,

        All I have done is read Scripture and taken it for what it says. When we do this, and we find the understanding where things that seem to contradict do not and actually make sense — as I just tried to explain to you — then we can be reasonably sure we have the correct understanding. In explaining to you how God can love and want all of us to be saved yet say that He has rejected people, I have provided you with a sound, valid and rational explanation. You do not have to accept it, but it means you cannot dismiss it as you are want to do with everything of God’s.

        BTW: this is also why your posts are riddled with logical fallacies 9and they are): it is because you seek to rationalize your desires rather than to live in harmony with Natural Law. As a result, you are constantly contradicting yourself. Sadly, it is also why you refuse correction (or even education, for that matter).

        Liked by 1 person

      • GMpilot Says:

        All I have done is read Scripture and taken it for what it says. When we do this, and we find the understanding where things that seem to contradict do not and actually make sense — as I just tried to explain to you — then we can be reasonably sure we have the correct understanding.
        You accuse me of ‘twisting’ scripture. You say I compound it with ignorance. Yet all I did was read the same scripture you have. Are you the Supreme Interpreter of the text, that anyone who disagrees with you is a heretic? That attitude has led to schisms and bloody wars. I read the same words you have, and got a different interpretation. Unlike a Quaker or Presbyterian or Methodist, I don’t believe in any of it, and I have no emotional stake in the outcome. But if the language is that vague—and you must know that some of it is—then others can read into it far worse things than those you accuse me of.

        As for your ‘correct understanding’: I asked you several posts ago to define “morality” so we could discuss it further. I don’t think it means what you think it means, and I wanted to be sure we were on the same track. But like our hostess often does, you abandoned that discourse when things got hard.
        You’re the one who chided me about my fallacies of logic, and now you bemoan my lack of understanding.
        I say again: if an all-powerful god does not wish that anyone shall perish, then no one shall perish. If they do, then either the god is not all-powerful, or the god wants them to perish.
        Your ‘response’ ended with the threat of the loving god’s Eternity Stick pounding on me, forever and ever. Again, this is something I see many Christians resort to when all else fails.

        Come back when you have something more civil to say. I’ll be around.

        Like

      • christinewjc Says:

        GM,

        There is a good concept in Bible study that tells us that “Scripture interprets Scripture.” One of the greatest tools to avoid self interpretation is to utilize that concept so that we don’t fall into the trap of error which can lead down the road to heresy or even apostasy.

        The term “morality” can mean different things to different people. However, the Bible tells us that it begins with the Commandments of God.

        Liked by 1 person

  14. GMpilot Says:

    CJW: There is a good concept in Bible study that tells us that “Scripture interprets Scripture.” One of the greatest tools to avoid self interpretation is to utilize that concept so that we don’t fall into the trap of error which can lead down the road to heresy or even apostasy.
    “Scripture interprets Scripture” is a concept invented by the Church to explain away some of the bible’s sticking points. How does one interpret the scripture of judge all things with that of judge nothing?

    “Heresy” and “apostasy” are terms full of meaning for the religious-minded, but mean nothing in a civil court. Not any more, anyway.

    The term “morality” can mean different things to different people. However, the Bible tells us that it begins with the Commandments of God.
    Because the term “morality” can mean different things to different people is exactly why I wanted to hear his meaning. Not yours. Let him answer his own mail, Christine.

    Like

    • christinewjc Says:

      Scripture interpret[ing] Scripture isn’t just a concept invented by a church. It is biblically sound. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it any less valuable.

      As usual, you take Scripture out of its proper context and I also see that you conveniently left out an important portion of 1 Corinthians 2:15 – “he who is spiritual judges all things,” as well as an important portion of 1 Corinthians 4:5 – “Therefore judge nothing before the time,

      You wrote, “Let him answer his own mail?” You do realize that this is a blog and not some private email service, don’t you? Boy…you revealed how thin-skinned you can be.

      Liked by 1 person

      • GMpilot Says:

        CJW: As usual, you take Scripture out of its proper context and I also see that you conveniently left out an important portion of 1 Corinthians 2:15 – “he who is spiritual judges all things,” as well as an important portion of 1 Corinthians 4:5 – “Therefore judge nothing before the time,
        Yeah, “judge nothing before its time, until the Lord comes,” it says. Seems I’m not the only one who conveniently leaves things out. I linked to the entire verse, so how did I get it ‘out of context’?

        You wrote, “Let him answer his own mail?” You do realize that this is a blog and not some private email service, don’t you? Boy…you revealed how thin-skinned you can be.
        But you don’t realize that I wanted him to clarify his own statement, even though I told you why. He’s all grown up; he can speak for himself now. Let him answer his own post.
        Does that suit you better?

        Like

      • christinewjc Says:

        So far, perhaps J has decided to not continue casting “pearls before swine.” Or, he could be busy at his own blog.

        He did “like” the comment (above) with the link I shared to the “Commandments of God.” so perhaps that could be a clue given to you as to where he stands?

        Liked by 1 person

      • Black3Actual Says:

        GM,

        How can I have a conversation with you that will produce any positive result. I — having once been in your shoes — understand how you think and reason. But you have demonstrated you do not have any understanding of how I am thinking and reasoning. In addition, you have also demonstrated that you have no understanding of Scripture — nor do you care to acquire it. So, again, I ask you: How can we have a conversation that will produce anything of value? But the better question would be: Why do you even care? You profess not to believe, and you demonstrate your skepticism as a matter of routine. The logical conclusion is that you do not seek anything of value, only to entertain yourself by ridiculing things you have shown you do not understand, nor care to understand.

        Actually, I feel sorry for you. You believe you are being a ‘serious’ person and that you are founded in reason, yet — by your words and actions — you show that you also believe you are qualified to comment on things you do not understand. If you truly believe you are being rational, how can you not see that your entire view of the Bible is based in fallacious reasoning? This is evidence of your delusion, and THAT is why my heart goes out for you. You are blind, but you do not know you are blind and you are refusing all who offer to help you open your eyes.

        Liked by 1 person

  15. GMpilot Says:

    CJW: [J] did “like” the comment (above) with the link I shared to the “Commandments of God.” so perhaps that could be a clue given to you as to where he stands?
    Now that you and he are officially BFFs, perhaps you can ask him to be sure, especially as he has come back long enough to say something.

    Like

  16. GMpilot Says:

    B3A: GM, How can I have a conversation with you that will produce any positive result.
    You might ask God for help. It’s been said to be effective.
    I — having once been in your shoes — understand how you think and reason. But you have demonstrated you do not have any understanding of how I am thinking and reasoning.
    Yet you seem to not realize I was once in your shoes as well. Like me, you feel you’ve found a better way. All the rest is testimony–why we’ve come to our respective conclusions.
    In addition, you have also demonstrated that you have no understanding of Scripture — nor do you care to acquire it.
    No, I dumped most of it. If even one thing in the scriptures is of questionable value, the rest of it falls into question as well. There is only one Scripture, but there are at least a dozen translations of it, and a million interpretations of that. That doesn’t exist for any other book I know of.
    So, again, I ask you: How can we have a conversation that will produce anything of value? But the better question would be: Why do you even care? You profess not to believe, and you demonstrate your skepticism as a matter of routine. The logical conclusion is that you do not seek anything of value…
    “Pearls before swine” again?
    … only to entertain yourself by ridiculing things you have shown you do not understand, nor care to understand.
    Actually, I feel sorry for you.

    I won’t call you a liar, but from our very first exchanges, what you have shown to me is not pity, but contempt. Don’t be surprised that I don’t believe you.
    You believe you are being a ‘serious’ person and that you are founded in reason, yet — by your words and actions — you show that you also believe you are qualified to comment on things you do not understand. If you truly believe you are being rational, how can you not see that your entire view of the Bible is based in fallacious reasoning?
    The entire Bible is based on one indemonstrable assertion: that a god exists. People tell me he does, but if I say I don’t see him, I’m told that I gotta have “faith” to see him. There’s a word for that kind of reasoning, which you used below: delusion[al].
    This is evidence of your delusion, and THAT is why my heart goes out for you. You are blind, but you do not know you are blind and you are refusing all who offer to help you open your eyes.
    If my eyes are open and I can’t ‘see’ the god, then he’s either hiding from me, or he’s not there. People who actually want to meet you tend not to hide.
    This is evidence of your condescension, and that is why I do not believe you. When—or if—you ever decide to treat me as a person and not as a potential trophy to offer to your god, THEN we can resume this conversation.

    Several posts (and days) ago, I asked you to define what you meant by ‘moral’. You’ve really gone out of your way to avoid answering that.

    Like

    • Black3Actual Says:

      GM,

      You may think you were once i my shoes, but if you have left, then you were not.

      There is NOTHING in Scripture that is wrong or contradicts itself. People have been making and trying to prove these claims forever, and they have forever failed.

      Bad translations are the fault of men, not God’s Word. When men tried to seek God’s heart in their translations, they hit the mark. Read the OT in Hebrew, Greek, Old English or modern and you will find the core message is perfectly preserved — EXACTLY as we would expect. God can and does preserve His Word.

      As for interpretations: again, this is the work of ignorance or the personal ambitions of people who seek self over God. Scripture even tells us there will be many of them and we are to watch for them.

      Pearls before swine? Why, yes. You are continuing to demonstrate the point, so why would anyone abandon that warning — especially since it came from Christ, Himself?

      I have shown you contempt? GM, go back and see who it was who started off mocking who? You’ll find you are just getting back what you gave. But even then, it is not YOU, personally, for whom I have contempt, but the spirit which controls you. I have an agape love for you, so I do feel sorry for you. But you are driven by a spirit opposed to God. I have no friendship with that spirit, nor am I commanded to have one. IF you had ever ‘been in my shoes’ as you say, you would have known this (at least, you should have).

      Now, let me thank you for justifying my attitude toward you. You plead injury, then call anyone who believes in God delusional. When you did that, you demonstrated that I have witnessed truthfully against your attitude/actions.

      HOWEVER, to your claim of delusion: that is NOT applicable to someone who believes in God. Science — as it is SUPPOSED to be understood — was developed by CHRISTIANS! This is a fact! They were not delusional. They accepted God’s Word, so –for the first time in human history — they concluded that the universe must be orderly and operate according to fixed law — just as Scripture claims. So they set out to learn about these laws in an attempt to better understand God and His character. NOTHING delusional here.

      AT THE SAME TIME, those who dismiss God and claim the universe created itself do so in direct contradiction to the known laws of physics. Some understand this, so they insist the universe has always existed — in direct opposition to the known laws of physics. So how does such a person reject God without also rejecting the known laws of physics? This line of thinking leads to contradiction no matter which way it is argued. To assert that a contradiction is reality… Well, BY DEFINITION, that is delusional (see why I said you do not understand reason?)

      Finally, IF you had ever been in my shoes as you claim, you would know that God clearly says He WILL show Himself… to those who sincerely and persistently seek Him!!! If He has not shown Himself to you, that does not mean He does not exist, it means you have not humbled yourself. You can deny it all you want, but your pride is evident in most everything you say here.

      Furthermore, it is not evidence of my condescension, but the wounding of your pride. Christ did not bow tot he Pharisees. Christ called them a nest of vipers, whitewashed graves and children of Satan — because they demonstrated an attitude exactly like yours. I am not Christ, but He is in me and I seek to do His bidding. This is why I have pointed directly to Scripture in all I have said to you. So, if you perceive harm in my words, it could well be that you are ignoring that which you claim does not exist yet again — a clear sign from God!

      One last time, GM. Do not try to claim you were not warned — because you have been…many times.

      Like

  17. christinewjc Says:

    Jhn 20:29

    Jesus said to him, “Thomas, [fn] because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

    Liked by 1 person

  18. GMpilot Says:

    B3A: You may think you were once i my shoes, but if you have left, then you were not.
    I said all the words I was taught to say, like most believers. I made all the right moves I was told to make (Sunday school, evening services, etc), like most believers. Then a couple of incidents in my life made me reconsider; and when I did, the ‘shoes’ no longer fit. If you ‘injure’ me at all, you injure my life. You haven’t been where I’ve been, seen what I’ve seen, done what I’ve done, or know what I know. I’m equally ignorant of your life, but I’m not attempting to pound you into theological submission.
    There is one part of my life you do not like, and one part of yours I don’t like. That is why we’re here over this.

    Bad translations are the fault of men, not God’s Word.
    A perfect God uses imperfect men to imperfectly translate and interpret his perfect word. I see no logic in this.
    As I’ve said before, if there were only one god there would be no other religions, and only one sacred book—because everyone would have the same exact message. The fact that there are so many sects is additional evidence that no such god exists, because one would think that he’d come and make clear to everyone which Book was the right Book—without all the all the so-called holy wars that have accompanied each one.

    HOWEVER, to your claim of delusion: that is NOT applicable to someone who believes in God. Science — as it is SUPPOSED to be understood — was developed by CHRISTIANS! This is a fact!
    Who determines how it is ‘supposed’ to be understood? For a very long time, the Christian clergy assumed that task, and while you think it a cliché, most scientific developments were suppressed by said gentlemen. For example, it was only in 1822 that the Catholic clergy conceded that Copernicus had been right all along—300 years late–and they didn’t acknowledge the truth of Galileo’s observations until 170 years after that. This is also a fact.
    Magic is never the answer. Ever.

    They were not delusional. They accepted God’s Word, so –for the first time in human history — they concluded that the universe must be orderly and operate according to fixed law — just as Scripture claims. So they set out to learn about these laws in an attempt to better understand God and His character. NOTHING delusional here.
    But they often assumed that someone was responsible for such order. When that order was disrupted, they assumed that the Someone was angry, and had to be appeased. Even the men who accepted God’s Word believed that, so they would build a grander church or declare more days of prayer and fasting, or burned a few more apostates. It rarely if ever stopped a hurricane or a plague because, we’re told, no one can know the mind of god.
    In the present day, I hear tales of god healing tumors or ‘rebuking the spirit of __________’ to effect a cure…I have never heard of god restoring a missing limb, though. More pragmatic believers tend to go to hospitals instead.

    AT THE SAME TIME, those who dismiss God and claim the universe created itself do so in direct contradiction to the known laws of physics. Some understand this, so they insist the universe has always existed — in direct opposition to the known laws of physics.
    So instead, there was a God who created Itself and then spent 13 billion years just…existing? How did it learn what it knows? Why would it decide to “create” anything at all? It has everything it needs. It is everything it needs, and it needs absolutely nothing. Certainly not us.

    Finally, IF you had ever been in my shoes as you claim, you would know that God clearly says He WILL show Himself… to those who sincerely and persistently seek Him!!! If He has not shown Himself to you, that does not mean He does not exist, it means you have not humbled yourself.
    If he exists and has not shown himself to me, that could also mean he’s not interested in me seeing him, and I will never see him until I’m groveling at the Throne. According to you (and Jesus), he may have had me slated for the Pit ‘way back when he built the universe, and I’m just following his Plan by ignoring him. But you’re a lot more offended by my attitude than he is.

    I am not Christ, but He is in me and I seek to do His bidding. This is why I have pointed directly to Scripture in all I have said to you. So, if you perceive harm in my words, it could well be that you are ignoring that which you claim does not exist yet again — a clear sign from God!
    It could well be that…but if it doesn’t exist, that makes it easier to ignore, doesn’t it?

    One last time, GM. Do not try to claim you were not warned — because you have been…many times.
    Repeating the final argument of religious believers, eh? I told you: I accept responsibility for my sins and will not try to pawn it off on someone else, even if he did volunteer to do take my place.
    And one last time, B3A: stop shouting at me.

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