What Did Pope Francis Say? [Update #2 – Must read link!]

Did anyone reading here tonight watch and listen to the prayer service at St. Patrick’s Cathedral? At one point, the interpreter (supposedly translating into English for what the pope was saying) said,

And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus… and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross.

 

What???

I stopped what I was doing and re-played the segment just to be sure that I heard it right! My husband thinks that the interpreter made a mistake?

If the pope DID say that, then Christians everywhere should be outraged! That is NOT biblical belief or proper exegesis of what is written in the Scriptures!!! It is NOT a proper interpretation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ!!!

~ Christine

P.S. As a former Catholic, now born again Christian, I have studied and learned how tradition and man-made “rules,” as well as the dogma of the Catholic church differs greatly with the Bible. I did admire John Paul II, but the idea that popes are descended from Peter is false theology.

Martin Luther was correct about the 95 theses he nailed to the church door! However, I doubt that even he would ever think a pope would say what Francis was purported to say (via the interpreter), “And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus… and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross.” This is weighing upon my heart because I find it deeply disturbing!! I hope that the truth is that the interpreter got it wrong!

Just did a search for the transcript and here it is:

The Washington Post: Transcript: Pope Francis’s comments at St. Patrick’s Cathedral.

Thoughts?

Is anyone else out there upset about this?

I will do a follow-up post just to prove (via God’s Word and Jesus’ own words) that what was said in that horrible sentence is VERY WRONG!

Update:

At another blog (The Last Refuge , this link was shared, serving as an explanation of what was meant by the pope’s comment.

At that blog, some commenters there shared additional information that helps explain two things.

1. Why “cutting off that sentence” led to my shock about what was said by the pope.

QuadGMoto says:

September 24, 2015 at 11:08 pm

I think the key there is “humanly speaking”. To those who can see no further than the physical world, it did look like failure. The simple fact is that it was the key to our redemption, thus a total victory.

I just checked the transcript for myself. (Thanks for the link.) What I find disturbing is not the phrase that you cited, but that he simply stopped there. He didn’t point out that it was not failure, but victory. That God’s ways are not our ways (Is. 55:8). That God uses what appears foolish to the world to shame them (1 Cor. 1:27). Instead, he left the idea that Jesus failed just hanging out there, unresolved.

It seems he just expected Christians listening to him to understand the implication. But if you’re going to bring up a point like while trying to encourage people, spelling out that what looks like failure actually isn’t when it comes to faithfully obeying God* strikes me as a supremely important part of encouragement.

(*Refusing to follow God is actual failure.)

2. Why that statement by the pope, standing alone, conflicts with Scripture.

georgiafl says:

September 25, 2015 at 7:50 am

Yes, this Pope left out the good part, the whole transforming, miraculous, Gospel.
The Gospel is foolishness to men, St. Paul said. But it changes hearts and minds.

“17For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach[b] to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.” – I Corinthians 1:17-25

My thanks to both commenters for their very important contributions to this discussion!

*******
Update #2

My blogging friend over at Oil for Your Lamp has a post up entitled:

The Spirit of Anti-Christ in the Words and Deeds of Pope Francis It is a MUST READ!

Also see:

Now The End Begins: The Shocking Message Pope Francis Preached At New York’s St. Patrick’s Cathedral

He Is Coming Blog: The Debate: Did Pope Francis Say Jesus Failed at the Cross?

With thanks to Ashley for sharing these links in the comment section!

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28 Responses to “What Did Pope Francis Say? [Update #2 – Must read link!]”

  1. GMpilot Says:

    OK, I’ve got my popcorn and my drink. Show us how you earned that apologetics certificate.

    Like

  2. GMpilot Says:

    What I read was what other people wrote. I haven’t seen a thing you’ve written attempting to translate what was said.

    ”I will do a follow-up post just to prove (via God’s Word and Jesus’ own words) that what was said in that horrible sentence is VERY WRONG!”

    That’s what you wrote yesterday. Instead you quote two readers at another blog and add no words of your own. Your instructor at BioLA would not be proud of that.

    Let’s see: you got your knickers in a twist because Pope Francis said “…and [Jesus’] life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross.”
    Well, it did, didn’t it? He was certainly not the Avenging Liberator the Jews had been watching for. He traveled around a area roughly the size of Maryland for over three years, healing lepers, restoring eyesight, turning water to wine, feeding a few thousand people (and killing a tree because it couldn’t feed him), even resurrecting a man several days dead. But his teachings were misunderstood by some, and perverted by others, and he was framed as one who pushed for sedition against Roman rule. We all know the story.

    A man who ends his life nailed to a couple of beams as a criminal can hardly be considered a success.

    But Francis said ”humanly speaking”. To you and two thousand million others, Jesus was not just human. He was a god, and not just any god, but a manifestation of great Yahweh, the original god, the one and only god (at least, that’s what we’re told today.) He was supposedly a kinder, gentler version of that god.
    For just that one occasion, the cross did not serve as an ‘engine of destruction’ (Jefferson), but as a sign of death defeated. Jesus came back, which humanly speaking, can not be done. And for those who believe in what he did, they can do it too. As Francis said later in his speech, “The cross shows us a different way of measuring success.”

    That’s what it sounded like to me, and I don’t even care what that man says. Since you deserted his authority decades ago, I don’t see why you should care either.
    But tell me anyway: how does Francis’ statement ‘conflict with Scripture’? Please bear in mind that it did not stand alone; it sounds very much as if he said it that way to deliver a point.
    And please do it before the popcorn gets stale.

    Like

  3. Ashley Says:

    Christine,

    I completely agree with your point! And it looks like several people see the issue with what the Pope said–if the pope really wanted to prove the point that “humanly speaking” the death of Christ was a failure, then he should have added the point that “it appeared”that way but it wasn’t a failure because of the resurrection. Not once did he mention the resurrection and hope we have in Christ–and that, within itself is bad doctrine. Withholding truth can even be considered a lie, and consequently is considered bad doctrine. This is similar to everyday life when we try to make something bad we’ve done sound better by withholding the entire story. If he were truly trying to make the point that to humans Christ’s death was a failure, he would have followed it up with the great truth of the resurrection.

    Hebrews 12:2
    Looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
    Colossians 2:14 ESV
    By canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

    Luke 14:27
    Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.

    “The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name.” (Luke 24:46-47)

    “He was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.” (Romans 4:25)

    “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day.” (1 Corinthians 15:3-5)

    “According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.” (1 Peter 1:3)

    That sounds like victory to me! Praise God for the wonderful joy we have due to His death on the cross and resurrection to pay for our sins! I an so grateful we have the assurance of the VICTORY in the cross and know what the end of the story reads!–the enemy has been defeated, death couldn’t hold Him down!!!

    http://www.Nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=35894

    http://www.heiscomingblog.wordpress.com/2015/09/26/the-debate-did-pope-f
    rancis-say-jesus-failed-at-the-cross/

    Liked by 2 people

    • christinewjc Says:

      Beautifully stated Ashley! And thanks so much for sharing those additional links!

      When I first heard pope Francis utter that statement, I could not believe my own ears! As I said in the original post, I rewound the DVR to hear it again. I was even more shocked the second time! I wondered how many fellow Christian bloggers heard this as it happened. I also wondered how many heard about it later. Apparently, A LOT of Christians heard about it and were moved to share it at their blogs. The two links you shared shows how utterly astounded many Bible-based Christians were upon hearing that portion of the pope’s speech!

      You covered why such a statement wasn’t biblical. Perhaps GMpilot’s popcorn isn’t stale, but his arguments always seem to be!

      God bless you, sweet young lady! Your wonderful wisdom is quite remarkable! And we know why…it’s because you garner the truth from Scripture, and then share the ultimate and powerful wisdom from God’s Word!

      gar-ner in the Bible

      (1.) Heb. ‘otsar, a treasure; a store of goods laid up, and hence also the place where they are deposited (Joel 1:17; 2 Chr. 32:27, rendered “treasury”). (2.) Heb. mezev, a cell, storeroom (Ps. 144:13); Gr. apotheke, a place for storing anything, a granary (Matt. 3:12; Luke 3:17).

      Speaking of treasure…

      I love 2 Corinthians 4, especially this portion:

      2Co 4:3

      But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,

      2Co 4:4

      whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

      2Co 4:5

      For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.

      2Co 4:6

      For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

      2Co 4:7

      But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us.

      Like

  4. christinewjc Says:

    Update #2

    My blogging friend over at Oil for Your Lamp has a post up entitled:

    The Spirit of Anti-Christ in the Words and Deeds of Pope Francis It is a MUST READ!

    Liked by 1 person

    • GMpilot Says:

      Ah, Michael Jackson, back when he was still human. Nice.

      The goodbye was for him, not you, Christine. But if you actually want me to leave:
      You could try being a pompous ass. It might work, but my opinion is that unlike B3A, you lack the capacity for it.
      You could go away yourself for a while. If you don’t post, I can’t post, right?
      Or, you could simply ban me. You’re the webmistress, you have the power, yet in ten years you never have.
      I’m one of your most consistent posters; you know you like having me around.

      Like

  5. christinewjc Says:

    I am now reading some of the comments over at “Now The End Begins” blog. The following one needs to be shared!

    Wendy De Rycke says:

    September 26, 2015 at 2:35 pm

    W.Keith. There is a huge difference between what God allows and what he ordains. The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the selection of any Pope, or any other leader that has ever been or will be.

    Judas was allowed and an integral part of the purpose for Jesus to pay the ultimate price for the forgiveness of sins.

    It is very disturbing when a Pope states that the cross failed, Jesus died.
    Without the Cross we are all dead and condemned for eternity.

    It is very distrubing when a Pope says you do not have to believe in God just be a good person. That too will not save a single soul and lead many to a false sense of security.

    It is very disturbing when a Pope calls Muslims Brothers and Sisters. This is specifically reserved for fellow Christians in Christ.

    It is very disturbing when a Pope beats around the bush and does not come out and condemn the murder of over 50 million babies through abortion.

    It is very disturbing when a Pope claims that a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is dangerous.

    Leading untold numbers to lose their souls because they place their faith in a Pope and not the word of God which never changes is disturbing.

    Read Acts and Romans after praying to God to be filled with the Holy Spirit so that you will have the discernment to understand the Bible. I pray that your journey will lead you to the undeniable truth of what the Church was intended to be and how it should operate and that you will be filled with joy over the beauty and simplicity of the gift that is so freely offered to all that seek to know him.

    Like

    • GMpilot Says:

      Still recycling the words of others and not contributing any of your own. So be it.

      Mr. W. Keith Moore at NTEB says ”There is a huge difference between what God allows and what he ordains. The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the selection of any Pope, or any other leader that has ever been or will be.”
      I agree with him that the Holy Spirit does not help select popes, but probably not for the same reason he does.

      However, Ms. De Rycke has a grievance list as long as your own, saying:

      Judas was allowed and an integral part of the purpose for Jesus to pay the ultimate price for the forgiveness of sins.
      Just like, presumably, that drunken driver who hit your car many years ago, Judas was ‘an integral part of the purpose’ for god to let you know how much he loves you. Wow.

      It is very disturbing when a Pope states that the cross failed, Jesus died.
      Without the Cross we are all dead and condemned for eternity.

      You’re missing the point. According to the story, Jesus died and came back, so the cross didn’t fail. It did what it was meant to do. ‘An integral part of the purpose’, just as Judas was.

      It is very distrubing when a Pope says you do not have to believe in God just be a good person. That too will not save a single soul and lead many to a false sense of security.
      There are many believers in god who are NOT good people; their own actions expose them. Conversely, there must be unbelievers who do not need a god to do or be good. But good people do not brag; they don’t have to.

      It is very disturbing when a Pope calls Muslims Brothers and Sisters. This is specifically reserved for fellow Christians in Christ.
      I doubt today’s Christians take that exclusion attitude toward the Jews; after all, Jesus wasn’t a Christian either, and it’s his god that all Christians pray to.

      It is very disturbing when a Pope beats around the bush and does not come out and condemn the murder of over 50 million babies through abortion.
      But the Pope has condemned the murder of babies and children and adults through war and famine—conditions that are at least as challenging as abortion. Fifty million—is that worldwide, or just in America over the past forty years? Probably it’s the latter. Better to have two healthy kids than six starving ones.

      It is very disturbing when a Pope claims that a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is dangerous.
      Try proclaiming that relationship in Saudi Arabia, or the Sudan, or Myanmar, and you’ll find out just how dangerous it can be. Proclaiming it to fellow Christians of a different sect can sometimes be just as dangerous. You should be disturbed about that!

      Leading untold numbers to lose their souls because they place their faith in a Pope and not the word of God which never changes is disturbing.
      The ‘word of god’ has gone through so many revisions and translations over the centuries that its authenticity is open to question. How many editions of the Bible exist today, and which one is the most accurate? Jesus never wrote anything down himself, so what exists are what others say he said…which puts him on the same level as Confucius, who never claimed to be the son of a god.

      I burned up most of a hour on all those other NTEB posts, Christine. Good read! It really IS comical to watch people argue over whose version of ignorance, myth, magic and superstition is the right version.
      If there is a god, he’s likely laughing too, at all those people who truly believe their differences matter to him.

      Like

      • christinewjc Says:

        If other Christian believers write something that is biblically based, then why can’t I just agree with them and share it here?

        No one told you to spend an hour on the NTEB posts. You did that through your own volition.

        You err regarding genuine Christian belief and you err regarding Bible “revisions and translations” (maybe you meant interpretation?) because you do not understand that the Bible was written by many human authors who were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

        The Bible is God’s Word to all mankind. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without any mixture of error.

        2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalms 12:6; 119:105, 160; Proverbs 30:5

        The errors done regarding proper exegesis of the Bible are on the part of humans, not God.

        Like

      • GMpilot Says:

        If other Christian believers write something that is biblically based, then why can’t I just agree with them and share it here?
        No reason at all, ma’am. It’s your blog. No reason. At all.

        No one told you to spend an hour on the NTEB posts. You did that through your own volition.
        I said it was a good read, didn’t I? Sheesh, what more did you want?

        You err regarding genuine Christian belief and you err regarding Bible “revisions and translations” (maybe you meant interpretation?)…
        No, I meant what I said: Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin, Middle English, Modern English…translations! The ‘interpretations’ are incorporated into the translated text. The KJV doesn’t say exactly what the RSV or NIV says.

        The errors done regarding proper exegesis of the Bible are on the part of humans, not God.
        Which means it’s not really his word, then. He’s been misrepresented all these centuries, and hasn’t seen fit to correct it. It’s almost as though he isn’t really there.

        Like

  6. Black3Actual Says:

    GMPilot,

    There will come a day when you will regret mocking God the way you do. When that day comes, things will be different. You will no longer be able to place blame on someone or something else. You will know your guilt and will have no defense. I pray for you — because I would not wish on anyone the things that you are so callously inviting upon yourself.

    Liked by 1 person

    • GMpilot Says:

      Long time no hear, B3A. You sound unhappy.

      I’m not mocking god, I’m mocking you. His skin isn’t so sensitive.
      I’m also not blaming anyone now. I’m stating things as I see them. If your god does exist, I am certain that the alleged differences between Jew and Catholic and Orthodox and Sunni and all the rest do not matter to him. A being that powerful and that omniscient would see it as nothing more than a squabble among small children.

      As for you: even though you claim a deity of love and forgiveness, even in your gentlest posts, there is always the threat of the Eternity Stick with which I’ll be beaten forever. That’s not a god of faith but a god of fear, and fear is really a lousy reason to follow anyone, god or man. You’re upset with the questions I ask that you can’t answer, and are afraid to ask yourself.
      If I am guilty (of what? Didn’t this god know I’d turn out this way?), then I know it right now—I don’t have to wait for some future Dies Irae to realize it.
      It’s very disturbing when the leader of an international child sex ring won’t condemn the actions of his confederates and immediately eject them. It’s very disturbing that a man prays for the poor while sitting on a golden throne.
      Don’t pretend to speak for your god when, by your own admission, no one knows his mind.
      Pray for me if it makes you feel better. I won’t mind, but it will neither help nor hurt.

      Like

      • Black3Actual Says:

        You have not upset me. And I do not throw pearls before swine, so do not look for me to waste time with you very often. In fact, I will only do so when I think you provide a teachable moment for others who might hear, turn and be saved. You have chosen your path. So be it. Just remember that YOU chose so that, when the time comes, you do not try to place blame on God.

        Liked by 1 person

      • GMpilot Says:

        Maybe that’s because you have no pearls to throw.
        B3A, you’ve said nothing in that paragraph that I haven’t heard from our hostess at least once a year every year since our association began. Been there, heard that, wasted time. I chose my path a long time ago, and I am at least as confident in it as you are in yours. I won’t be blaming god, because I don’t believe there is a god to blame. Goodbye.

        Like

      • Black3Actual Says:

        No, you believe that something came from nothing and then life evolved contrary to every other natural law known to man. In other words, you are quite confident that water runs uphill simply because you will it. That means — whether you know it or not — you DO believe in god. You’ve just decided you are god. All I am saying is “good luck with that.”

        Liked by 1 person

      • GMpilot Says:

        Spoken like a true believer in magic. You also believe that something came from nothing, but you call it “god”. (What did he come from?) But I haven’t made (or seen) water flow uphill. You, OTOH, have never healed lepers or driven out demons or raised the dead as Jesus said his followers would do.
        You repeat the same arguments and same phrases and the same dire warnings Christine uses, right down to the “so be its”, so I know you’re using the same playbook. I’ve read your book; I know the counter-tactics.
        I’m just a man, so I don’t know everything. And since I don’t believe in gods, why should I want to be one?? Go find a Mormon if you want to try that scam.

        Since you so piously proclaimed you won’t waste your time with me very often, I’ll give you a chance to demonstrate that now. Goodbye.

        Like

      • Black3Actual Says:

        Since you so piously proclaimed you won’t waste your time with me very often, I’ll give you a chance to demonstrate that now. Goodbye.

        I think you may have forgotten, so I’ll remind you: you said ‘good-bye’ first, then answered me. So,… 🙂

        Now, as for the ‘play book’ you talk about. I’m not so sure you HAVE seen it. If you have, then you are admitting to being in denial of objective reality. In this case, whatever ‘science’ you may believe. You see, ‘science’ has discovered that this universe could not have happened by random chance. It is too finely tuned to permit human life to be the result of random chance. In fact, it is too finely tuned to the figure of 10 to the 650 power BEYOND THE STATISTICAL CHANCE OF ZERO!!! Now, in a RATIONAL mind, this is proof that the universe was created by an infinitely intelligent mind. But to the mind that only wants to recognize and worship itself…

        Well, to that mind, I am chasing ‘myths’ and ‘so be its.’ But only one of us is grounded in objective reality, and science is not on your side here. Now, stay quiet and stay ‘good-byed.’ I’d hate to see you back-peddle AGAIN! 🙂

        wait for it, wait for it: three, two, one… :-))

        Liked by 1 person

  7. christinewjc Says:

    Wow…my friend from Oil For Your Lamp! How were you able to do that? Twice in one comment thread you got GMpilot to say “goodbye.” Over 10 years of blogging and I find that the Pilot…

    If music video doesn’t work here, go to this link:

    Never Can Say Goodbye.

    😉

    Like

  8. GMpilot Says:

    Hmm, posted too early. Trying again:

    Ah, Michael Jackson, back when he was still human. Nice.

    The goodbye was for him, not you, Christine. But if you actually want me to leave:
    You could try being a pompous ass. It might work, but my opinion is that unlike B3A, you lack the capacity for it.
    You could go away yourself for a while. If you don’t post, I can’t post, right?
    Or, you could simply ban me. You’re the webmistress, you have the power, yet in ten years you never have.
    I’m one of your most consistent posters; you know you like having me around.

    Like

    • christinewjc Says:

      I posted that video just to add a little levity to the harsh arguments going on in this comment thread. However, the underlying truth of the matter is very serious. I will get to that in a moment.

      Michael Jackson was a musical genius in his genre. I think that it is so sad that he turned out the way he did in later life. Extreme fame and huge fortune are not always beneficial. In fact, it can damage the heart, soul and spirit in many ways that people who live out of the spotlight of fame can’t even imagine. I read somewhere that Jackson accepted Christ as Lord and Savior before he died. I hope that is true.

      From my perspective, Black3Actual does not deserve your disparaging remark. Just because you reject what he is sharing doesn’t make him what you called him in your comment.

      For the longest time, you have disparaged God because of your own negative opinion of Him. You believe that the call in Scripture for the fear of God is something to dislike; even hate.

      In Matthew 10:28, Jesus said, “Do not fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

      The fear (meaning, dread) of God happened to Adam and Eve the moment that they sinned. Prior to that, they had a forever kind of loving relationship with Him. We (all human beings since) have inherited this tendency to sin, and thus unredeemed men and women (if honest with ourselves) also have the same dreaded fear of God.

      Upon being saved, that slavish “fear of dread” turns to a reverential awe of God. This is what Jesus Christ accomplished for us at the cross. We no longer live in dread of our Heavenly Father – it turns around 360 degrees towards a renewed and caring love for Him! And, because of our reverence for Him, His righteousness, and His Holiness, we fear to do evil.

      I see Black3Actual’s heart as being a believer who wants the Lord to use him for His great purposes and His glory. Through reading his blog, I see him as desiring to meet people who are lost with whom he can share the Gospel of Christ.

      Jesus shows us many times in Scripture how to pray. There is a great difference between those who say pagan prayers (where he/she tries to harness the spiritual powers of the universe to do his bidding… and so will say, “As I will so it must be.”) They are actually proclaiming, “my will be done.” it is the “being their own God” syndrome. Contrast that with the Christian prayer, “Thy [God’s] will be done.”

      The Bible has been attacked over the last 200 years or so like never before. We have been warned in Matthew 24 that this will be the case the closer we get to the end times when “the love of many will grow cold.”

      Why?

      Because of lawlessness.

      Mat 24:12

      “And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.

      Many secular “scholars” have joined in the savage attack. Yet, the critical scholars are proven wrong again and again. Why? Because as history unveils itself, the Bible is vindicated.

      You, GM, choose your scholars. You choose your experts, in which mostly all express anti-Christian opinions. The point is that somebody chose those experts and they didn’t choose them by chance. They often stack the experts in such a way as to promote unbelief. [A recent example in the Darwinism vs. Intelligent Design battle is the so-called Homo naledi, which is already being questioned as a unique species of unclear evolutionary importance.]

      The truth is, that link will not get anywhere near the exposure via the media as the “discovery” of Homo naledi has.

      But that is only one example. The quest to disprove (as well as disparage, twist, misinterpret, demonize etc.) the Word of God will go on until Christ returns. Meanwhile, Christians are rest assured that:

      Forever, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven. – Psalm 119:89

      GM, I don’t ban you and I continue to answer your anti-Christian rants here for the purpose of countering what you write; and hopefully helping those who may come upon this blog to read the posts and comments to see what the Bible says on such matters. I don’t know everything, but God’s Word has the correct answers. Whether you agree or not doesn’t really matter.

      Dostoyevsky famously said, “If there is no God, then all things are permissible.” That is why the fear of God is good, and to be a God-fearing person is healthy.

      I have attempted to express the relationship between the love and the fear of God. I’m sure there is much more evidence of this that can be shared from the Bible.

      Like

  9. The Love of Many Will Wax Cold | Talk Wisdom Says:

    […] Talk Wisdom's goal is to defend the tenets and values of Biblical Christian faith. We defend our Constitutional Republic and Charters of Freedom, especially when speaking out against destructive social and political issues. As followers of our Savior and Lord, we should boldly stand up for Jesus Christ in our present circumstances. He is our Savior, Lord, and King, and His love needs to be shed abroad in our hearts and in our world – now. « What Did Pope Francis Say? [Update #2 – Must read link!] […]

    Like

  10. GMpilot Says:

    Yes, Michael Jackson was an extremely talented entertainer, and it is a tragedy that he turned out the way he did later in life. But worldwide fame and a huge fortune were not the cause; they were just a symptom. In my opinion, he was never allowed to grow up. His father discouraged it, and later his handlers discouraged it, and the public discouraged it, and the money he made allowed the play to go on far longer than it should have.
    He had dozens of vehicles, of all kinds—he loved anything with wheels on it. His constant surgeries made him look less like a young man and more like his mentor Diana Ross. His lush estate was officially known as “Neverland”. As I recall, the leading figure in Neverland was a boy who never wanted to grow up. With hundreds of millions of dollars to his name, Jackson never really had to. He could remain a boy forever, just as (IMHO) the Father in Heaven wants us to do. To never grow up, to never stand on our own two feet.
    I thought he’d already squared up with Christ—he was raised a Jehovah’s Witness, after all. Are you implying that other Christians don’t get to talk with Jesus as you do? Isn’t that like…you know…religious bigotry?

    ”…Black3Actual does not deserve your disparaging remark. Just because you reject what he is sharing doesn’t make him what you called him in your comment.”
    I reject what you share too, but you aren’t condescending and arrogant. He is, he admits it, and so deserves any disparaging remark I give him.

    ”For the longest time, you have disparaged God because of your own negative opinion of Him.”
    All I know of your god is what’s written in his book, and most of it IS negative. There’s some really good stuff in there, but some really horrifying stuff as well. Early in Book One, he destroys every living thing on earth except what’s on Noah’s barge. Even in the last installment, he is lurking up there in heaven, just waiting for the right moment to unleash his Death Angels and Scorpions of Terror, and readying the Undying Worm and Unquenchable Fire. That’s not my opinion; that’s what’s there, in black and white (and red).
    Some of his best followers ignore all that drivel. Some of his worst thrive on it, and get rich in the process.

    ”In Matthew 10:28, Jesus said, ‘Do not fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.’”
    Just who has that kind of power, ma’am? Only one supposedly has the power to do both, and it’s only natural to fear such a being. But people don’t worship what they fear—unless, of course, they’re trying to be the last ones to be destroyed.

    ”…We no longer live in dread of our Heavenly Father – it turns around 360 degrees towards a renewed and caring love for Him! And, because of our reverence for Him, His righteousness, and His Holiness, we fear to do evil.”

    Uh huh. The only fear I see here is the fear of showing their faces: hoping god wouldn’t recognize them, I guess.

    ”I see Black3Actual’s heart as being a believer who wants the Lord to use him for His great purposes and His glory. Through reading his blog, I see him as desiring to meet people who are lost with whom he can share the Gospel of Christ.”
    Obviously, I regard him differently.
    Jesus had no internet connection, but I doubt it would have mattered to him. He always did his best work in one-to-one interaction: the leper, the blind man, the centurion, the woman at the well. I’ve said earlier that good people don’t need to brag—if they’re good, other people will brag about them. As you see.
    I’m sure there are a dozens of people within ten miles of B3A’s home who’d be receptive to the message he wishes to spread, but instead he chooses to talk with strangers on the internet, where it’s impossible to know whether a remark is dead serious or in jest (unless an emoticon is used), and where facial expressions and other body language cannot be read—and where people are much more likely to refute him. Salvation, like charity, begins at home, and I think he should repair his own neighborhood instead of bulldozing the next county over.
    Perhaps he’s tried that, and was as abrasive in person as he is online; I do not know. But community work isn’t a bad way to begin, is it? The local rec center, or the hospital, or the jailhouse—you know, places his Founder suggested that he visit!

    This is getting way too long, so I’ll stop here. There’s other things to do. And I was right: you aren’t capable of being…what I called him.
    If you were, you wouldn’t have written this post.

    Like

    • christinewjc Says:

      Oh boy…are YOU wrong! I have been accused of being “arrogant” and many other derogatory names by some of my own relatives when they thought I couldn’t hear what they were saying!

      To my face, both women were kind and complimentary towards me. But when they thought I could not hear them, they disparaged me because I left the Catholic church and (in their minds) listen to “that preacher on TV” (referring to Dr. David Jeremiah).

      I was sad, disappointed, and even angry to hear them speak of me like that! I even wanted to lash out – showing them that I heard what they were saying. But I held back, knowing that they are just two un-informed old ladies that are stuck in the unbiblical dogma of the Catholic church – just as I was decades ago. I realized that no matter how kind I could be in presenting the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (minus their ingrained ideology that the Catholic church is “the one true church”), there will be those who reject the truth, and also reject me (in some ways) because of their entrenched beliefs that they have lived in all of their lives.

      It was a lesson where I literally needed to “turn the other cheek” and just “forgive them in my heart.”

      Mat 5:39

      “But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

      Because Jesus forgave those in the process of crucifying him, I should be able to forgive such a minor offense.

      Luk 23:34

      Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.” [fn] And they divided His garments and cast lots.

      You see, GM, all Christians know that we are going to be hated by non-believers. After all, they hated Jesus first. And many hated Him without a cause.

      Jhn 15:18

      “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.

      Jhn 15:25

      “But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’ [fn]

      Oh gosh…I just went back into your comment to see the links you included. The klu klux klan? Sheesh!!! What a bad example in response to what I was actually saying in that paragraph. I guess that is your way to dodge the genuine issue. Sad for you…

      Like

  11. GMpilot Says:

    CJW: Oh boy…are YOU wrong! I have been accused of being “arrogant” and many other derogatory names by some of my own relatives when they thought I couldn’t hear what they were saying!
    What am I wrong about, hostess? That you really are a pompous ass? Or are you saying that other people have thought you are? Please reread your words, then come back and clarify this.

    You see, GM, all Christians know that we are going to be hated by non-believers. After all, they hated Jesus first. And many hated Him without a cause.
    Ever hear the term “self-fulfilling prophecy”? Yeah, like that.
    Many people hate other people without cause, especially people they’ve never even met. It’s usually referred to as “them vs. us” and sacred texts use it as much as any tribal chief of national politician.

    Oh gosh…I just went back into your comment to see the links you included. The klu klux klan? Sheesh!!! What a bad example in response to what I was actually saying in that paragraph. I guess that is your way to dodge the genuine issue.
    You guessed wrong. I used that picture to frame your ridiculous assertion “because of our reverence for Him, His righteousness, and His Holiness, we fear to do evil.” Those…persons, because of the clothes they wore, did not ‘fear to do evil’ in the least. They stood there, on the stage, apparently secure in the love of their god, and later that week they probably went out and torched somebody’s home (or worse). But the only fear they showed was the fear of being identified. If there is such a ‘Heavenly Father’, those men did NOT live in dread of him. They were concerned about a judge living in the county, not a future judge of the dead.
    The KKK is as much a Christian organization as the YMCA or Cornerstone Church, but their community outreach is…extraordinary, and not in a good way. So dense are you…

    True believers in your god may fear to do evil, but that’s hardly ever stopped them from doing it.

    Like

    • christinewjc Says:

      I don’t think that hanging a “Jesus Saves” sign over a group of white sheet hooded clan members constitutes being true believers. Jesus informed us (among other important facts in Matthew 7) that “you shall know them by their fruits.”

      Mat 7:15

      “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

      Mat 7:16

      “You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

      Mat 7:17

      “Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

      Mat 7:18

      “A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

      Mat 7:19

      “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

      Mat 7:20

      “Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

      Mat 7:21

      “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

      Mat 7:22

      “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

      Mat 7:23

      “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

      Mat 7:24

      “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:

      Mat 7:25

      “and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

      Mat 7:26

      “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:

      Mat 7:27

      “and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

      Like

      • GMpilot Says:

        I forgot your standard tactic: don’t actually respond to the point, just drown the other in a flood of Bible verses. I have read the book, you know; the link to Matthew 7 would have been enough.
        The question remains. Are you as arrogant as (some) people have said you are, or not?
        I’d like to know because, obviously, we’re never going back to the evil words of the Pope.

        Like

  12. Jorgé Bergoglio, whose job title is Pope Francis, knows better than the Gospel of Mark? – Dr. Eowyn | Talk Wisdom Says:

    […] Bergoglio could not be more heretical against biblical Christianity than when he stated: And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and produce no fruit, we need to remember that we… at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in September, 2015; we also see that in her post entitled, […]

    Like

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