Did you read that graphic? The Constitution states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Where did the Extreme Court get the right to claim that same-sex “marriage” can be made a law by 5 unelected lawyers?
OK. Maybe you have come to this blog thinking that allowing a made-up-out-of-thin-air “right” to same-sex “marriage” could not possibly hurt anyone? Well, think again! Regardless of the way that it was improperly and lawlessly imposed upon all 50 states (remember that at least 35 states had constituents who VOTED to ban same-sex “marriage” – which were all whisked away by the whims of 5 pro-homosexual activists on the Extreme Court) this disastrous decision has placed those who love God, His written Word the Bible, and His Living Word Jesus Christ all in the crosshairs of being destroyed by the radical homosexual agenda!
Don’t believe that this is true and a FACT? Read all the blog posts where I shared what destroying the true definition of marriage would lead to!
For years, at this WordPress Talk Wisdom blog and previously at my former Talk Wisdom blog, I have been sounding the alarm and warning what would happen to people of faith (particularly born-again Bible-based Christian believers) if, and when, the fraudulent same-sex “marriage” activists got their way via the courts to change the true, God given definition and over 2,000 year old existence of marriage as being the union of one man and one woman.
Well, we are now seeing the harmful ramifications of that awful, defiant, unlawful, and unconstitutional Extreme Court decision by five unelected lawyers back in June. It has not only led to Christian bakers, florists, marriage venue owners, etc. being taken to court and fined; but now a pro-homosexual judge decided to throw a Kentucky clerk into jail because she had the nerve to stand up for God and her deeply held Christian beliefs in regards to not issuing same-sex marriage licenses because doing so would go against her religious convictions.
There are many articles out there, but the following one is one of the best that I have read in a long time! I have included the article (below) in its entirety.
Jesus told us that the closer we get to the end times, the more that we would see the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. He warned us that it would be as in the Days of Noah, and as in the Days of Lot.
Such days are upon us right now!
Look up, for your redemption is nigh…
In Christ,
~ Christine
*******
Cruz rips federal judge’s ‘tyranny’ in clerk’s case.
‘Where is the call for President Obama to resign for ignoring and defying our immigration laws’
GOP president hopeful Sen. Ted Cruz, on Thursday accused U.S. District Judge David Bunning of “judicial tyranny” for jailing a Kentucky county clerk who refused to violate her Christian faith and issue licenses to same-sex couples.
He said those who are calling for her removal from office – she can’t be fired, she can only be impeached if she chooses not to quit – are hypocrites.
“Where is the call for President Obama to resign for ignoring and defying our immigration laws, our welfare reform laws, and even his own Obamacare?” Cruz said. “When the mayor of San Francisco and President Obama resign, then we can talk about Kim Davis.
“Those who are persecuting Kim Davis believe that Christians should not serve in public office. That is the consequence of their position. Or, if Christians do serve in public office, they must disregard their religious faith – or be sent to jail,” he continued. “Kim Davis should not be in jail. We are a country founded on Judeo-Christian values, founded by those fleeing religious oppression and seeking a land where we could worship God and live according to our faith, without being imprisoned for doing so.
“I call upon every believer, every constitutionalist, every lover of liberty to stand with Kim Davis. Stop the persecution now.”
Bunning summoned Rowan County clerk Kim Davis to his courtroom on Thursday after she defied his order to violate her faith and issue licenses to same-sex couples.
Bunning, who previously has ruled in favor of partial-birth abortion and homosexual clubs for high schoolers, said a fine simply wasn’t enough punishment for her and ordered her to jail until she agrees to issue the licenses.
Then he ordered her assistants to either issue the licenses or join her in jail. Five of the six agreed, several under protest.
Bunning later tried to resolve the case by telling Davis to come back to his courtroom and she could go if she agreed not to interfere with her deputies’ actions, according to reports.
She refused.
Cruz said: “Today, judicial lawlessness crossed into judicial tyranny. Today, for the first time ever, the government arrested a Christian woman for living according to her faith. This is wrong. This is not America.
“I stand with Kim Davis. Unequivocally. I stand with every American that the Obama administration is trying to force to choose between honoring his or her faith or complying with a lawless court decision,” he said. “In dissent, Chief Justice Roberts rightly observed that the court’s marriage decision has nothing to do with the Constitution. Justice Scalia observed that the court’s decision was so contrary to law that state and local officials would choose to defy it.
“For every politician – Democrat and Republican – who is tut-tutting that Davis must resign, they are defending a hypocritical standard. Where is the call for the mayor of San Francisco to resign for creating a sanctuary city – resulting in the murder of American citizens by criminal illegal aliens welcomed by his lawlessness?”
Paul Kengor, author of “Takedown: From Communists to Progressives, How the Left Has Sabotaged Family and Marriage, today “it’s the county clerk, tomorrow it will be the florist, the baker, the photographer, the pastor, and on and on,” warned
“Get ready for the persecution coming near you – all, of course, in the name of ‘love’ and ‘tolerance,’” he said. “This has only just begun.”
Kengor was not surprised by the jailing. He said a moment like this became inevitable as soon as Anthony Kennedy and four other Supreme Court justices declared “same-sex marriage” a constitutional right in June.
“For the apostles of tolerance and diversity, this is what their ‘tolerance’ and ‘diversity’ actually look like in practice,” Kengor told WND. “It is intolerance. It is coercion. It is pickets, boycotts, fines, penalties, demonization, and, in some cases, incarceration. Welcome to the Left’s new America, where those who disagree with the Left’s ongoing invention of new ‘rights’ are penalized by the state.”
Michael Brown, a WND columnist, said the case exemplifies why he wrote his new book “Outlasting the Gay Revolution.”
“There will be a price to pay, but it is only as we stand firm that change will come,” Brown told WND. “Kim Davis is paying a very real price now.”
Prior to her court appearance, Davis told Fox News’ Todd Starnes she was prepared to go to jail for her beliefs, saying, “This is a fight worth fighting.”
She actually stopped issuing any marriage licenses after the Supreme Court’s Obergefell decision so she would not be discriminating against any group.
“This is why the very first principle in the book is ‘Never Compromise Your Convictions’ and the fourth principle is ‘Refuse to Redefine Marriage,’” Brown said. “This is the great moral, cultural, and spiritual test of our generation. Will we do what is right in God’s sight – which is in the ultimate best interests of our society – or will we cave in and capitulate?”
Kengor warned that progressives will be ruthless on this matter.
“Be prepared for something even more shocking from the Left – the lack of apologies and regrets,” he said. “Liberals will defend and even applaud the sight of this woman being hauled off to jail.”
Indeed, hundreds of people outside the courthouse chanted, “Love won! Love won!”
Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee tweeted his support for Davis: “Kim Davis in federal custody removes all doubts about the criminalization of Christianity in this country. We must defend #ReligiousLiberty!” he said.
Brian Brown of the National Organization for Marriage said the fault rests with the Supreme Court, which created the conflict between the enumerated constitutional right of free religious exercise and the newly created “same-sex marriage” right.
“It is outrageous to jail Kim Davis because she does not want to personally be part of certifying same-sex ‘marriages’ that violate her deeply held religious beliefs about the nature of marriage,” said Brown. “What this judge is saying is that now that the Supreme Court has illegitimately redefined marriage, every single person in government if not in the country must stand in salute and participate in the act. That is profoundly wrong and violates the spirit of federal law which provides that the government must seek ways to reasonably accommodate people’s religious views in the workplace.”
He said: “While Judge Bunning is the instrument of the inhumane punishing of Kim Davis, the authors of it are the five justices of the U.S. Supreme Court who illegitimately, without a shred of constitutional authority, redefined marriage without any regard to the profound implications their ruling would have on law-abiding, faithful Americans. With this ruling, the idea of religious freedom that is at the heart of our constitution has been eliminated when it comes to exercising beliefs about marriage. It’s a profound shredding of the constitution on the altar of gay activism.”
Penny Nance, president of Concerned Women for America, said that Davis’ “predicament is the direct result of the lawlessness promoted by the Supreme Court of the United States itself with its unconstitutional Obergefell decision.”
“It’s flippant, and frankly insulting, treatment of religious liberty and Obergefell is a disgrace to that great institution.”
AL.com reported Davis’ lawyer, Mat Staver of Liberty Counsel, said, “While she may be behind bars for now, Kim Davis is a free woman. Her conscience remains unshackled.”
Raw Story reported the White House expressed no concern for Davis or religious freedom, with spokesman Josh Earnest saying: “There’s a rule of law and the principle of the rule of law is central to our democracy. And it’s appropriate in this instance for a federal judge to determine the best way to enforce the law.”
A legislative leader in Kentucky had asked the judge to delay the case until lawmakers could provide a resolution, but Bunning refused. He also refused, according to Davis’ supporters, to provider her due process.
WBKO in Bowling Green quoted one pastor raising a question that Bunning failed to address.
Tom James of Eastwood Baptist Church told the station: “The Supreme Court didn’t make a law, they just interpreted the one that was already on the books. … The First Amendment guarantees our freedom to practice our faith, and just because she is a public official, I don’t know of any law that says she loses that freedom.”
Another pastor criticized her for not following the ruling in her position as county clerk. However, “same-sex marriage” was not the law when Davis was elected.
Hat tip:
Tags: Christianity, radical homosexual agenda, religious freedom, restore our nation
Talk Wisdom 
September 4, 2015 at 9:38 am |
[…] Source: The First Amendment guarantees our freedom to practice our faith, and just because she is a public o… […]
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September 4, 2015 at 5:51 pm |
CJW: Did you read that graphic? The Constitution states that “Congress shall make no law!”
The Constitution also states this:
This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
Congress is the LEGISLATIVE branch of government. If they don’t make the laws, that leaves the Executive (1 person, whom you despise) or the Judicial (9 people, whom you also despise).
For someone who claims to love the Constitution, you really don’t understand it, do you?
OK. Maybe you have come to this blog thinking that allowing a made-up-out-of-thin-air “right” to same-sex “marriage” could not possibly hurt anyone?
Oh, no. It’s hurt quite a few people. Most of them are like you, who are not themselves gay, and cannot imagine how it feels to have government and public opinion against you; to live knowing that people call you a criminal because you want to have a loving relationship with an autonomous adult person who happens to be of the same sex as yourself. Having no idea what that’s like, and lacking the capacity to imagine it, you and others claim that a made-up-out-of thin-air “god” condemns a made-up-out-of-thin-air “right” to marry whom one wishes.
It sounds to me you’re upset because Kim Davis has gone to jail for breaking the law, by not doing her job. The law protected her to an extent; as an elected official, she can not be fired, only impeachment or resignation are her options. But since she has not only not done her job, but refused to, the judge was left with no choice.
She’s only in the county jail, Christine, not Leavenworth or Abu Ghraib.
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September 6, 2015 at 2:44 pm |
I have been busy with home and family so I need to catch up on what has been transpiring since Kim Davis was jailed.
Fox News is covering a rally of supporters of Davis outside the jail house.
Of course the homosexual activist mafia also had to show up and scream their joy about Davis being jailed. This is one more example that it isn’t just about marriage…the homosexual activists’ goal is to silence Christian beliefs – even to the point of showing glee at jailing them.
There is another rally scheduled in support for Davis on Tuesday, Sept. 8th.
First, if the following is factual, then we will see that the judge went far beyond what even the plaintiffs attorneys requested be done about Kim Davis. They did not ask for her to be thrown in jail – that was the idea of the judge regarding this matter.
Second, since she is in jail, the deputies under her at the court house are now issuing homosexual “marriage” licenses. If so, then why is she still in jail?
Third, 26 years ago when Kim Davis was first elected to the office of county clerk (and has held the office all this time by the VOTES of her constituents…she’s a Democrat, BTW) the oath she took for issuing marriage licenses was for one man, one woman marriages.
Fourth, the fact that at least two (Sotomayor and Ginsburg) of the S.C. justices officiated at homosexual “marriages” proves that they could not be objective in this decision and therefore, they should have recused themselves. ( I have heard that Elena Kagan is lesbian, but not sure about that.) I have also read somewhere that Kennedy’s sister is lesbian, thus he most likely had reasons to be biased in this decision as well.
Fifth, go read Justice Scalia’s scathing dissent (as well as Justice Roberts, Thomas, and Alito) in the minority opinion(s) of the case. Scalia was almost prophetic in the fact that he predicted that what has happened to Kim Davis would happen. Making up a new law redefining God’s idea of marriage would end up being used for the purpose of prejudicial attitudes towards Americans who believe that the over 2,000 year definition of marriage is the union of one man and one woman. The rogue lawyers in the Extreme Court made a decision based on “feelings” rather than law and has (as pointed out over the years during this fight) resulted in condemnation towards Christian morals, values, and beliefs; forcing them to lose jobs because they choose to follow God’s laws as written in the Bible.
I could go on and on. But scrolling down and reading the dissenting opinions [PDF] cover far more than I could in this comment.
Here’s just a small portion of why this decision was wrong:
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September 7, 2015 at 1:03 am
…And here I thought you’d lost interest in the whole affair! (j/k!)
Allow me to fish my reply to your earlier post before moving on to the newer ones:
CJW: [Sen. Ted] Cruz said: “Today, judicial lawlessness crossed into judicial tyranny. Today, for the first time ever, the government arrested a Christian woman for living according to her faith. This is wrong. This is not America.”
Of course if that Christian woman really lived according to her faith, she wouldn’t issue marriage licenses to people who’d been divorced either, ’cause all good Christians know god hates divorce almost as much as he hates homosexuality. At least she should know that, being on her fourth marriage herself.
But no, she’s just another cafeteria Christian, who selects the portions on the table that she likes, and ignores the rest.
“This is why the very first principle in the book is ‘Never Compromise Your Convictions’ and the fourth principle is ‘Refuse to Redefine Marriage,’” [WND columnist Michael] Brown said.
Oh, I see. Mrs. Davis didn’t compromise her convictions, so I guess that does make her an adulteress by biblical standards, then. Better get the red embroidery out…
This article explains very well why Mrs. Davis’s case is not “criminalization of Christianity”, just criminalization of one Christian—and that only for contempt of court. The reason she’s confined is not only because she refused to do her job, but because she refused to let the rest of her office do their job.
CJW: …the judge went far beyond what even the plaintiffs attorneys requested be done about Kim Davis. They did not ask for her to be thrown in jail – that was the idea of the judge regarding this matter.
Quite right, and I think it seems rather harsh. However, Judge Bunning knew that she would never pay the fine for contempt of court—there are too many yahoos out there who would pony up the money, so it wouldn’t come from her pocket. But no one else can serve her jail time. She has to do that herself.
…since she is in jail, the deputies under her at the court house are now issuing homosexual “marriage” licenses. If so, then why is she still in jail?
Because she didn’t simply stop issuing ‘homosexual “marriage” licenses’–she stopped issuing all marriage licenses, in an effort to not appear discriminatory. NO state issues homosexual marriage licenses—only marriage licenses, without regard as to whom they’re for. As long as both parties meet the legal requirements, they are entitled to one. As I stated above, she didn’t take that turn with divorcees, so despite her subterfuge, she showed bias against a certain group of people in her county, which as a county clerk she is not allowed to do. She also ordered her deputies to also break the law. (That would be conspiracy against the marriage rights of the residents of the county, I would guess.) But I think the other deputy clerks prefer to have a steady check to cover their bills, and I’m sure none of them make the $80K/yr Mrs. Davis gets.
She’s still in jail because she refuses to comply with the existing law.
The judge has made it clear that she could leave at any time IF she either complies or resigns. Even if she were to be impeached, and I doubt she will, it’s unlikely to happen before January, and by then there’ll be some other thing for the righties to scream about. If she wants to make like Daniel, she can remain in the clink like Daniel. There are no wild lions in Kentucky, and we don’t feed them prisoners, anyway.
…26 years ago when Kim Davis was first elected to the office of county clerk (and has held the office all this time by the VOTES of her constituents…she’s a Democrat, BTW) the oath she took for issuing marriage licenses was for one man, one woman marriages.
When the laws change, the elected official changes with them, or leaves. There must be someone somewhere who still believes in the Jim Crow laws, but is smart enough to not try to exercise them in the performance of their duties. Judge Bunning (a Republican appointed by GW Bush, BTW) was very clear on that matter: Kim Davis wants to eat her cake and have it too.
Kerry B. Harvey is the US Attorney for the Eastern District of Kentucky, is aware of and put out a statement about Kim Davis:
”We have grave concerns about the reported failure to comply with the court’s order. Government officials are free to disagree with the law, but not disobey it. The County Clerk has presented her position through the federal court system, all of the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. It is time for the Clerk and the County to follow the law.” (emphasis mine)
It really is as simple as that.
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September 8, 2015 at 3:00 pm
GM,
The divorce issue is different. Recall that God gave Moses the law which included allowing divorce decrees for infidelity.
The reason (that I have heard, anyway) that she couldn’t just allow her deputies to issue the marriage licenses to homosexual couples is because she her position there would require her to sign off on them anyway. She was elected to this office many times (26 years of service) and each time she swore an oath to uphold the law and the state and federal constitutions, it was for one man and one woman marriage. If a group came to her wanting a polygamous marriage, she wouldn’t sign off on that either.
I have heard that in order to not cause a controversy, she encouraged ALL couples to go to another county to get their licenses. But the judge in this matter went even further than the plaintiffs requested. They didn’t want her jailed, just fined (like all the other cases which included a baker, florist, and venue operator). But the judge sought to jail her without bail which is clearly a violation of her constitutional rights as an American citizen.
You claim that she “didn’t comply with existing law.” What law did she break? The Extreme Court decision was OPINION, and no state or federal legislature has confirmed this new “law.” It was a made-up “right” given by 5 rogue lawyers (two of whom should have been recused) and is NOT in the constitution!
You are so concerned about Mrs. Davis breaking the law, what about when Gavin Newsome in San Fransicko illegally issued homosexual marriage licenses against one of the propositions that stated, “Only the union of marriage between one man and one woman is valid in California?” It was either Proposition 22 or 8; which was voted on BY THE PEOPLE in the state where the majority wanted marriage to remain defined as the union of one man and one woman. Why wasn’t Newsome thrown in jail? How about your buddy 0zero? Why wasn’t he fired from his job or thrown into jail for violating the immigration laws?
Obviously, people pick and choose their “outrage” and find lawyers to punish those with whom they disagree.
Mrs. Davis cannot resign. She is an elected official, therefore the people in the county would need to vote to replace her. She cannot comply (as the judge wanted her to) for obvious reasons already discussed.
The final paragraph in your comment reveals the real reason why homosexual activists have targeted Mrs. Davis. They want to FORCE her into disobeying God and His Moral Law; and if she doesn’t, they will do all they can to “make an example of her” – even if it means imprisonment without bail. Sounds like totalitarianism and tyranny to me!
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September 6, 2015 at 2:48 pm |
Read this: Breitbart.com – Big Government
Excerpt:
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September 6, 2015 at 2:59 pm |
Albert Mohler: “In this World You Will Have Trouble” — Welcome to Rowan County
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September 7, 2015 at 2:01 am |
“Today’s decree says that my Ruler, and the Ruler of 320 million Americans coast-to-coast, is a majority of the nine lawyers on the Supreme Court,” Scalia said.
Of course Justice Scalia can say that, since he is one of those nine lawyers on the Supreme Court.
The majority of the justices spoke, and that’s the way of it. It is to be supposed that Scalia will himself comply with the decree even though he does not agree with it. As a lawyer, he knows exactly what needs to be done if he desires a different outcome. I’ve heard no indication that he plans to do so.
You don’t want shariah law, but it seems you won’t follow the laws of the republic unless you agree with them! When you decide just what sort of government you do want, come back and we can talk like adults with an opinion, instead of swapping quotes with each other.
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September 8, 2015 at 4:18 pm |
See this article:
GOP USA: Stand Up for Religious Beliefs and Get Thrown in Jail… But What Law Was Broken?
Excerpt here in comments in response to Frannie.
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September 8, 2015 at 1:15 pm |
“Today, judicial lawlessness crossed into judicial tyranny. Today, for the first time ever, the government arrested a Christian woman for living according to her faith. This is wrong. This is not America. I stand with Kim Davis. Unequivocally. I stand with every American that the Obama administration is trying to force to choose between honoring his or her faith or complying with a lawless court opinion.”
That’s one way to think about. Another is to point out that Kim Davis, the elected county clerk in Rowan County, Ky., has chosen to abuse the power granted to her as a government official, and is paying the price for doing so. Cruz aside, she has every right to her own personal opinion about gay marriage; she has every right to live her own life according to her own faith and she runs no risk of arrest for doing so.
However, Davis has no right to use government as a means to unilaterally impose her own personal religious viewpoint on other people, in direct challenge to the system established in the Constitution. She has no right to carve out Rowan County as a place that will live by HER rules, dictated by HER conscience.
That’s the critical point: When a government official uses government authority to impose his or her own religious faith on others, that is not by any definition “religious freedom.” That is the definition of religious tyranny.
That’s why she is in jail, and that’s why she belongs there.
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September 8, 2015 at 3:03 pm |
Frannie,
What do you think about the fact that the judge in this matter went even further than the plaintiffs requested? The plaintiffs didn’t want her jailed, just fined (like all the other cases which included a baker, florist, and venue operator). But the judge sought to jail her without bail which is clearly a violation of her constitutional rights as an American citizen.
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September 8, 2015 at 3:50 pm |
As I understand it not on a contempt charge. She will either comply with the court order or remain in jail.
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September 8, 2015 at 4:13 pm |
Frannie,
Please read the following article.
GOP USA: Stand Up for Religious Beliefs and Get Thrown in Jail… But What Law Was Broken?
Excerpt:
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September 8, 2015 at 4:12 pm |
This is from a friend of mine who is a lawyer:
“The court has the power to impose a fine, a jail term or both at its discretion. Courts will usually impose the least possible sanction needed to punish contempt. However, a court may impose a serious punishment if the offending party willfully defies the court and needs to be deterred from such acts in the future.
Contempt may be committed in front of the court or outside its presence. Misconduct committed in the actual presence of the court is called direct contempt. Misconduct committed outside the court’s presence is called indirect contempt.
The court may impose a punishment immediately after direct contempt. Since the judge is able to see the misconduct personally, proof is not needed to convince the court to impose a punishment.
Finally, it isn’t about bail if a person is found in direct contempt of court (which is what happened with Kim Davis). It’s about the sentence. Bail is set to ensure that a person will show back up for court. If the contempt was “indirect” and required a hearing, then bail would be set and a court date given for a hearing. But, the contempt was “direct” and the judge did not have to hold a hearing. It happened in his/her presence, and sentencing was immediate and no bail required.”
It is not a violation of her constitutional rights!
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September 8, 2015 at 4:22 pm |
Hmmm….it’s interesting that the judge chose to jail her on a contempt charge. How convenient for him! But where is the law written that she is being accused of breaking? [See the article link and excerpt posted above.]
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September 8, 2015 at 4:35 pm |
“As an elected official, Davis is accountable to the voters of her county… not some judge. If she sat at home and drank all day and never came to work, would she be thrown in jail? No! She would face discipline by the voters in the form of whatever actions are set up in Kentucky law and the laws of Rowan County. Whether it is a recall election or some kind of impeachment, elected officials are accountable to the people, and if the people don’t like what she is doing, then they are the boss and can take action.
Really? what utter nonsense!
She took an oath of office:
Every clerk and deputy, in addition to the oath prescribed by Section 228 of the Constitution, shall, before entering on the duties of his office, take the following oath in presence of the Circuit Court: “I, ….., do swear that I will well and truly discharge the duties of the office of ………….. County Circuit Court clerk, according to the best of my skill and judgment, making the due entries and records of all orders, judgments, decrees, opinions and proceedings of the court, and carefully filing and preserving in my office all books and papers which come to my possession by virtue of my office; and that I will not knowingly or willingly commit any malfeasance of office, and will faithfully execute the duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality, so help me God.” The fact that the oath has been administered shall be entered on the record of the Circuit Court.
Taking that oath doesn’t mean she can sit at home and drink all day and never came to work, and not suffer any consequences.
It’s just fine — in fact, I think it’s admirable — for a public official to say that he or she won’t enforce any law that’s fundamentally immoral and in contradiction to God’s laws. But the only way to keep that promise consistent with the oath of office is for the official to resign when she thinks enforcing the law would be wrong. Given Davis’s statement of faith that it would violate her interpretation of God’s will to issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple, she should quit her position as county clerk. Indeed, she must — or she’d be living in a position of hypocritical sin.
But by saying she won’t issue the marriage licenses while serving in office, Davis is also, committing a sin: violating an oath she made before God to uphold the Constitution and laws of the U.S. The Constitution requires her to issue licenses for gay couples. Every moment she disobeys the Constitution, she is violating her oath. The Bible doesn’t look kindly on oath-breaking. The only way for her to emerge from the state of sin is to resign.
Under the Constitution, the government can’t force you to engage in a religious action or stop you from exercising your freedom of religion. Normally, it shouldn’t coerce you to act against your faith. But no one was or is coercing Kim Davis. She’s free to serve the public and obey her oath to God to follow the law. And she’s free to quit and absolve herself of that oath. The choice is hers.
“The Supreme Court does not make laws. As it currently stands, Kentucky law is written as is, and in order for same-sex couples to marry, there has to be a new law. Until that time, Kim Davis is actually FOLLOWING the law, because marriage between same-sex couples does not exist in Kentucky.”
SCOTUS is not making any laws, it is interpreting the Constitution! And before you tell me that the Constitution doesn’t require gay marriage, it’s just that the Supreme Court says it does, think again. The Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Constitution is binding — and that’s a cardinal constitutional principle that can’t be denied by anyone who works for any part of the U.S. government. If you don’t agree with that, there’s a Civil War that needs fighting, again.
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September 8, 2015 at 10:28 pm |
Marriage isn’t mentioned in the Constitution. Therefore, she is not violating anything in either the state or federal constitutions.
Unelected lawyers on the Extreme Court have “found” (after 239 years??) a so-called “right” that does not exist in the U.S. Constitution!
Also, when Mrs. Davis pledged that oath, the fact that marriage is the union between one man and one woman had already been written into the law (by 75% of the voters!) in Kentucky. Five rogue justices decided to strike that STATES RIGHTS law (as well as similar laws passed by the majority of voters in 35 other states) and create out of thin air (and their own opinions) a “right” to re-define marriage and overrule millions of voters (in not only Kentucky, but 34 other states) in one fell swoop. That is not how our Constitutional Republic is supposed to work.
And, you are probably correct. The way that things are going towards evil in this nation and the fact that religious rights are being violated may mean it will end up coming down to another civil war. So be it.
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September 8, 2015 at 8:12 pm |
CJW: The reason (that I have heard, anyway) that she couldn’t just allow her deputies to issue the marriage licenses to homosexual couples is because she her position there would require her to sign off on them anyway. She was elected to this office many times (26 years of service) and each time she swore an oath to uphold the law and the state and federal constitutions, it was for one man and one woman marriage. If a group came to her wanting a polygamous marriage, she wouldn’t sign off on that either.
If she swore an oath to uphold the law and the state and federal constitutions, and those laws should change (as it has), then she is still obliged to uphold them. She doesn’t want her name on those papers? There’s a way to fix that: turn in her papers. If she had done that, nothing more would have been said except “Sorry to see ya go, Kim.”
I have heard that in order to not cause a controversy, she encouraged ALL couples to go to another county to get their licenses.
IOW, she wanted to inconvenience the residents of Rowan County at their expense, because she couldn’t be bothered to give them the service they were paying her for. Bobby wants to marry Alice in Rowan County—they live in Rowan County, and are plainly not homosexual themselves—but Mrs. Davis chose to inconvenience ALL such residents of the county because she didn’t want to acknowledge those other people in that county who were now able to marry.
But the judge sought to jail her without bail which is clearly a violation of her constitutional rights as an American citizen.
A number of people get jailed, and their bail denied, every year. The usual reasons are that they can’t meet the bail amount, or that they’re considered a hazard to public safety, or that they might flee from the jurisdiction of the court. There is one more reason: they refuse bail. I have heard that is what Mrs. Davis did, because she considered even posting bail as compliance with a law her god doesn’t like.
Obviously, people pick and choose their “outrage” and find lawyers to punish those with whom they disagree.
But you’re not one of them, of course.
Mrs. Davis cannot resign. She is an elected official, therefore the people in the county would need to vote to replace her. She cannot comply (as the judge wanted her to) for obvious reasons already discussed.
Which is why she should resign. If it’s a matter of conscience for her, then she cannot properly do her job. But she doesn’t want to do that. She wants to keep on collecting eighty grand every year doing just what she’s done for the past twenty-six…except for just one thing, which she feels she should be exempt from.
Her lawyers have said that even though she’s been released, she still will not comply and will probably stop issuing licenses as soon as she returns to the office…thereby inconveniencing even more couples, and costing the county money in lost revenue and more legal fees.
ANY elected official can resign. Nixon did, without calling for a vote.
No one is FORCING her to do anything. If there is a god involved here, it seems he whispered in her ear “sacrifice yourself to me.” Why else would she submit herself to several days’ jail time, contempt of court, non-compliance with the law and (at least) the annoyance of Rowan County residents who now must go somewhere else to get the service they deserve at home?
But…please proceed, Christine.
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September 8, 2015 at 11:00 pm |
Kim Davis has been released. And the two commenters here (who have bashed her personal failings in the past) should read the true story about this brave woman!
In Perspective: Kim Davis – State Criminal? Church Discipline?
Looks like the judge in this wrongful incarceration of Davis finally “blinked” on this one. Perhaps he feared tremendous backlash for his stupidity.
When he sought to punish Davis, he must have had delusions of grandeur; thinking that he’s like the king of England who badgered and suppressed the religious rights of the people in his own country, and then when they left to find religious freedom in the colonies, the oppression by the king didn’t stop. Therefore, the Revolutionary War was fought for the freedoms they were being denied.
Incarcerating this woman was a travesty of justice, and that judge knows it. The upcoming rally on Saturday would have continued to show the judge’s error(s) on this issue, so he “decreed” her release.
At the time that our nation was born, after a long, hard fought and bloody war against the tyrants from England who sent soldiers over to America to kill the colonists into compliance; Benjamin Franklin was asked by a woman, “what kind of government have you given us, sir?” He replied, “A Republic, if you can keep it.”
Our beloved Republic has been on the road to destruction for some time now by the programmed regressives who think their awful policies will lead to some kind of utopia. Their conscientious stupidity, foolish wisdom of the world, anti-God and anti-Christ mindsets, unrepentant hearts, evil intentions, and satanic policies all reveal that they think they know better than God and His Word, the Bible.
One day, they will stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgment and realize how wrong they were. But at that point, it will be too late for them to be redeemed.
How prophetic Franklin was in his answer to that woman during the birth of our nation!
There is still time to turn the tide away from sin, evil, death and destruction. I pray that God will continue to see fit to hold us in His loving care at such a time as this.
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September 9, 2015 at 1:16 am |
CJW: When he sought to punish Davis, he must have had delusions of grandeur; thinking that he’s like the king of England who badgered and suppressed the religious rights of the people in his own country, and then when they left to find religious freedom in the colonies, the oppression by the king didn’t stop.
Uh huh. Which king of England are you talking about, and what religion was he? ‘Cause I’m sure you know that the official religion of England is Anglicanism (C of E), a mutant form of Catholicism. You probably know that the Anglicans waged war against the the (Presbyterian) Scots and the (Irish) Catholics. The Pilgrims and Puritans so beloved by Christian nationalists were fringe churches in England, and they were such a nuisance that they were thrown out. For a while they lived in Holland, but suddenly realized they were taking on too many Dutch ways, and even the Dutch were getting annoyed with them. So when they came to America, they set up their own clergy and their own system, and woe to the Baptist or Quaker (or Indian) who ran afoul of it.
Now, it’s the former oppressed who are doing the oppressing.
“Religious freedom” has come to mean “we’re free to practice our beliefs on you, but not yours on us.” Heck, some Christians don’t even acknowledge Catholics as fellow Christians, and in many cities one can easily tell the Methodists from Baptists from the Congregationalists. If there is a god, I don’t think he makes such distinctions.
Whatever became of that “love thy neighbor as thyself” axiom? Oh, right: nobody really believes that, and the people who supposedly want to show us how it works are among the biggest deniers of it. Imagine, a civic official—and a Christian—telling her citizens that they can’t get married! Any idea what sort of lies Mrs. Davis may have told the straight couples why she wouldn’t issue them licenses?
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September 8, 2015 at 11:23 pm |
[…] Talk Wisdom's goal is to defend the tenets and values of Biblical Christian faith. We defend our Constitutional Republic and Charters of Freedom, especially when speaking out against destructive social and political issues. As followers of our Savior and Lord, we should boldly stand up for Jesus Christ in our present circumstances. He is our Savior, Lord, and King, and His love needs to be shed abroad in our hearts and in our world – now. « The First Amendment guarantees our freedom to practice our faith, and just because she is a public o… […]
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September 15, 2015 at 8:58 pm |
Never let it be said that Kim Davis doesn’t keep her word.
She said she would not allow marriage licenses to be issued under her name or authority. But she still refuses to resign. So, she intends to continue to collect $80,000 a year while not doing her job. Isn’t there a rather derisive name for people like that?
Will the OathKeepers draw down on the federal marshals if they come to take her back to jail?
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September 15, 2015 at 9:38 pm |
What is ironic is the fact that the accommodation now being given to her was what she originally asked for before that rogue judge chose to punish her for her deeply held religious beliefs.
Her clerk job has more duties other than issuing marriage licenses. She deserves to be paid for it.
Of course, you and the other rabid leftists would like to see her being punished again – even more than she already (unlawfully) has been punished and jailed – because knowingly or unknowingly, that is what haters of the God of the Bible enjoy doing towards Christians.
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September 15, 2015 at 11:15 pm |
What is ironic is the fact that the accommodation now being given to her was what she originally asked for before that rogue judge chose to punish her for her deeply held religious beliefs.
Actually, she’d been offered it before, but refused. (see below.)
Her clerk job has more duties other than issuing marriage licenses. She deserves to be paid for it.
But she’s getting paid to do all of those duties, not just some. Would you feel that way about a firefighter who refused to work on Sundays—especially if it was your own house burning? She has a right to her beliefs, but not a right to her job. If she won’t execute it as she should, she should resign.
As one article points out:
If Davis didn’t want her name attached to the documents, she could have gone to the state legislature and asked them to change the law so county clerks’ names are no longer on marriage licenses. Who knows, the legislature might have found her endorsement claim sympathetic and changed the law. This would have allowed her to step aside from that duty while letting her deputies continue to issue licenses without her name on them.
This, of course, didn’t happen. The judge in the case tried to work with her, saying he would let her stop issuing licenses herself, but she had to let other deputies do it. Her office was a chokepoint in the process of getting married, and she was denying taxpayers the opportunity to get married. That had to stop.
Of course, you and the other rabid leftists would like to see her being punished again – even more than she already (unlawfully) has been punished and jailed – because knowingly or unknowingly, that is what haters of the God of the Bible enjoy doing towards Christians.
If she gets punished again, it’s her own fault. If she wants to show contempt of court, she may—but she’ll have to face the consequences. Disobeying a judge’s order is against the law. She doesn’t need to be told that, and neither should you. Since the state legislature doesn’t convene until January, she could stay in jail that long, and unless/until some divine quake cracks the facility open, there’s no reason the think any gods care what happens.
She may end up running Rowan County into bankruptcy over this. So be it, as you like to say.
Your ‘haters of the god of the bible’ propaganda won’t work here.
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September 16, 2015 at 1:04 am |
What I read in reports is that they still wanted Kim Davis’ signature [correction: her name printed on the form] on the forms when the deputies wrote out the certificates. Whomever was responsible (probably the governor) to grant this request refused to remove her name from the documents.
It’s ironic that directly after the egregious Extreme Court opinion, the Kentucky governor changed the forms from “bride” and “groom” to “party (or some other word) 1” and “party 2” in order to accommodate the homosexuals.
It’s not propaganda when its true. You DO hate the God of the Bible and have said as such over the course of many years. So, what’s your beef when I mention this to readers here?
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September 16, 2015 at 2:14 am
What I read in reports is that they still wanted Kim Davis’ signature on the forms when the deputies wrote out the certificates. Whomever was responsible (probably the governor) to grant this request refused to remove her name from the documents.
As I understand it, the responsible party is the Legislature, and as noted, they won’t convene until January.
It’s ironic that directly after the egregious Extreme Court opinion, the Kentucky governor changed the forms from “bride” and “groom” to “party (or some other word) 1” and “party 2” in order to accommodate the homosexuals.
Not referring to African-Americans by the “n-word” was done in official forms to accommodate black people. Is it the word usage that offends you, or is it the people those words represent? That isn’t irony, that’s showing respect.
It’s not propaganda when its true. You DO hate the God of the Bible and have said as such over the course of many years. So, what’s your beef when I mention this to readers here?
Just one: I’ve never said that.
I don’t hate your god any more than I hate Dracula or Darth Vader, and for exactly the same reason: I don’t believe it exists. I think your god sounds like an infinite tyrant, one that should be defied, denied, or ignored, but never hated. You give an enemy too much power by hating him.
Have I said I hated the god of the Bible? Gimme book, chapter and verse—humiliate me to your readers, and let them see me apologize. But if you can’t do that, don’t misquote me. Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.
Your religion supposedly instructs you to hate the sin, but not the sinner. If you can do that, it’s okay for me to hate the belief, but not the believer.
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September 16, 2015 at 2:38 am
Calling God a “tyrant” (synonyms include “despot, autocrat, dictator”) and trying to make others believe that you don’t hate [meaning, to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility] towards Him is quite the stretch, GM.
Well, 0zero and his handlers are all tyrannical in nature, so maybe you personally CAN like tyrants – at least the human kind – that is.
Look…I don’t need to debate the issue with you. The only One who really and ultimately matters in the end; and the only One who knows your future and your final choice as to whether or not you will continue to reject Him in the end, already knows your final destination.
Jesus already know what’s in your heart.
Jhn 15:18
“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
Jhn 15:19
“If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Jhn 15:20
“Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
Jhn 15:21
“But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me.
Jhn 15:22
“If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.
Jhn 15:23
“He who hates Me hates My Father also.
Jhn 15:24
“If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father.
Jhn 15:25
“But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’ [fn]
Jhn 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.
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September 16, 2015 at 3:23 am
Look…I don’t need to debate the issue with you. The only One who really and ultimately matters in the end; and the only One who knows your future and your final choice as to whether or not you will continue to reject Him in the end, already knows your final destination.
But you don’t. So quit claiming to speak for him on matters you know nothing about.
Are you admitting that you can’t prove what you claim I’ve said? After ten years, there should be a rich field to choose from. Or is it just easier for you to change the subject without backing up your words?
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September 16, 2015 at 4:44 am
Yes, I and any other Christian knows your final destination when you choose not to repent. God’s Word (not mine) informs us (me) quite well about the matter.
An unbeliever does not necessarily need to actually say (or write) the term “hate” in order to show his/her disdain for the God of the Bible and His Son, Jesus Christ.
I did find this thread at my former blog:
More GMpilot Rationalizing, I See.
Unfortunately, the links to the forum do not work anymore since the message board has been taken down. But we can note this important part:
a recent post written by GMPilot:
[Note from Christine: Calling my sharing of God’s Word “bullshit” is certainly not any sign of love…or like…of the God of the Universe. What’s left? Answer: Hatred.]
Christine’s reply:
In case you might be interested in the thread he is talking about, go to “Rationalizing God’s Latest Felony” [An awful article!] Yes. That thread holds the record for hits – 6,411 and counting. The post with the second greatest number of hits is The Times of the Signs: The Days of Lot. That thread has 4,752 views. I have neglected to reply to GM’s latest post over there. Need to get busy on that.
For now, I will share my reply to GM’s comment above:
More GM Rationalizing – I see….
You neglected to quote the correct title – it’s “RATIONALIZING God’s Latest Felony.”
You claim that my other forum is “almost hopeless.” Yet, you still read there. So, one must conclude that you like to rationalize what you personally deem as “almost hopeless.” Hmmmm…I find it interesting that you don’t find what I write and/or share as totally hopeless. That is how most atheists/skeptics/anti-Christian minds often think. They find their “hope” in the “things of this world” – including the current bogus POTUS.
But still, some atheists/skeptics/anti-Christian minds have been turned towards God’s Truth. Some eventually figure out that the things of this world are useless to them after they die. They figure out that all that they strive for on this earth provides only temporary fulfillment – if any – at all. Graveyards are filled with formerly rich people (and/or famous) who some would have said, “had it all.” However, many of them lived miserable lives while rejecting the only true Hope in the universe – Jesus Christ.
It’s funny. On the one hand you wish me a “happy anniversary” regarding this site. Then, you proceed to mock the beliefs that I and other commenters share here and at the blog. Well… it’s not surprising. Jesus himself told us that our faith in him would be cause for ridicule. He also stated that the real reason for the mocking is because [they] “hated him first.” There is a poignant message in his words. Not only do the unsaved disbelieve that Jesus is who he said he is – the Son of God, Savior, King and Lord – but they also hate him without a cause. But you go even further – don’t you GM? Yes. You do. You personally hate him because of your twisted notion of God having committed a “felony” against man because of a tsunami. Why not blame global warming like most clueless liberals do? You would make Al Gore proud if you did!
I don’t know whether or not you read a recent post that I wrote on the blog last Sunday. Within the post, I mentioned this:
I was reading in Max Lucado’s book – “Traveling Light” – that even when the time for our physical death on this earth arrives, it pales in comparison to what Christ endured for us on the cross.
Lucado explained via a story. He mentioned that in Psalm 23, David wrote, “Yea though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I will fear no evil; for Thou art with me.”
Then, he asked a child who was fearful of the concept of death (something that we are all destined to do) if he would rather be run over by a bus or by the shadow of a bus. The child answered – “the shadow of the bus.” Lucado continued to explain that the child answered correctly. And, it is because Jesus took the sins of the world upon himself and that Christ experienced the “run over by a bus” kind of death, that we wouldn’t ever have to experience such a death. Instead, we will pass through “the valley of the shadow of death.” This is another way to say that we do not die spiritually because of what Christ has done for us! What a marvelous Savior we worship and belong to!!
I thought that was a great analogy to put forth the point that Christ’s sacrifice for our sakes was the greatest event in human history! And, his subsequent resurrection from the dead shows us that his word is absolutely true! We can confidently trust him with our very lives!
No other spiritual leader ever claimed to die for the sins of mankind. No other savior could prove exactly who he was by rising from the grave. Jesus was the only one who accomplished that!! Therefore, we can trust him wholeheartedly with our lives! We can trust in his promises! Like this one:
Jhn 14:2
In my Father’s house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Jhn 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.
The book of Ephesians, Chapter 5 discusses the fruit of the Spirit. Verse 8 informs us that were all “sometimes[in] darkness. But now, as born again Christians we are now “light in the Lord.” The light [meaning holiness, righteousness] shines from Jesus Christ! To walk as children of light, we are to be reflectors of HIS LIGHT [righteousness, holiness]! This is why no one can brag about anything within ourselves. All glory, honor, thanksgiving, and worship belongs to Christ alone!
Here’s a verse that humbles each and every believer:
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
But we are brought back from our uncleanness through the Lord:
Eph 5:8 ¶ For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
So, as I had stated previously within the “Rationalizing God’s Latest Felony” [Note: link to original article] thread, you are sorely misunderstanding the point of life on this earth. And, since you are missing that, you are also misunderstanding the reason for physical death.
Whether it’s being “run over by a bus” or “dying by tsunami,” the fact is that because of what Jesus Christ did for us at the Cross on Calvary, we only experience “the shadow of the valley of death.” That is, if God is with you through the Person of Jesus Christ.
[Note: I share this for the sake of readers who might come along to read through this thread; showing just one example of GMpilot’s hatred towards God through his comments about “God Owes Us an Apology” which was an atheist’s article that was written shortly after the 2004 tsunami in Southeast Asia.]
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September 16, 2015 at 6:19 pm |
Wow. You must have burned some midnight oil for this!
[Note from Christine: Calling my sharing of God’s Word “bullshit” is certainly not any sign of love…or like…of the God of the Universe. What’s left? Answer: Hatred.]
You weren’t sharing your god’s word: you were sharing yours. Most of the subjects I listed in that post had little or nothing to do with ‘god’s word’ and a lot to do with your perspective of the world—and much of that was inaccurate. That’s why I called it bullshit, and I say it again.
Your attempt to parse definitions are laughable.
I have an intense dislike for lima beans: don’t serve me succotash!
I have an extreme aversion to drowning, so I wear safety gear.
I have hostility to people who threaten me; I will fight them.
But those are all on a sliding scale, and none quite reach the level of “hatred”.
As for the 2004 tsunami: I noted that you blamed it on the lifestyles of people in that region (you weren’t specific about who, but I assumed Thailand, since they were impacted first and worst). That wall of water and mud killed students, prostitutes, travelers, housewives, businessmen, fishermen, government workers, rescue workers, the devout and the nonbeliever alike—exactly as it would be expected to if there was no god involved. If a god was responsible for that, why should anyone worship it? You think the god of the universe can be swayed by a blob of flesh he knows everything about (having created it), just because it asks him to?
Of course, that might happen if that god does love mankind—but only some of it, not all of it. The god of the bible has shown plainly that he does not love all of mankind.
You always like to invoke that “god has a plan” but if that plan includes something you don’t like—like Obama being elected twice—you feel it’s your duty to smack that down, no matter what your god’s plans are. Like every other zealot, you do what you believe god would do if he knew what was really going on.
Ms Ehrenreich states that no one will come along to get us out of the mess we’re in—we must do it ourselves.
You claim that someone will come along to get us out of the mess we’re in, so any attempt to alleviate it ourselves is futile.
It’s been a nice intermission, but what has all this to do with Kim Davis?
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September 17, 2015 at 5:23 pm |
GM,
You asked the question:
So, I went back to my former blog and typed into the search, “GMpilot hates God.” The post thread about the tsunami article came up on the list, so I utilized that information to demonstrate your hatred of God and His Word, the Bible.
You, GM, are clearly against Jesus Christ, Therefore, you are also against God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
I do not think that you are properly recalling what transpired at the former Talk Wisdom message board. Unfortunately, the original post and comments are gone. However, I DO recall mentioning the pastor (or priest?) who tried to warn the coastal officials about the danger of the earthquake that resulted in the tsunami. His warnings were ignored.
[Found one story about the priest warning people and saving their lives. It is told within this article. Scroll down to #9.]
So I blame the “officials” of the area who had hours to warn the public, but refused to do so (probably because of the money they would lose).
This link shares 11 facts about the 2004 tsunami. One listed there says:
and another says:
Those two facts alone shed the most blame on human error. Even the animals instinctively knew to get to higher ground. Amazing how God gave them that ability!
For anyone interested, there are photos and stories at this link
About God’s plan. His ultimate plan will be carried out, despite the evil, sin, and death that unredeemed man causes on this earth.
The Bible warns us throughout Scripture regarding what the signs of the times are, (earthquakes increasing, being one of the signs) and what the earth will be like when the Son of Man returns for His own. I have written about such warnings and signs several times here at this blog.
There is a Bible verse that informs us that “your sin will find you out.”
There was much voter fraud in the 2012 election. When 120% of a county in a state “voted” for 0zero, we can see just one example. The havoc that he and his puppeteers have wreaked upon the American people and people all around the world is stunningly evil!
The free will that God has given men and women can be used for either good or evil. I prefer men and women who are more likely to use their free will for good. But God allows both the “wheat and the tares” to grow together. However, come harvest time they will be separated – for all eternity.
GM wrote:
I was answering your question.
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September 18, 2015 at 1:38 am
GM wrote: It’s been a nice intermission, but what has all this to do with Kim Davis?
I was answering your question.
No, you weren’t.
You claim you typed “GM hates god” into your search engine, and “The post thread about the tsunami article came up on the list, so I utilized that information to demonstrate your hatred of God and His Word, the Bible.”
I know you’re really proud of that thread, and I hope you’ll remember that I’m partly responsible for its popularity.
So…exactly what did I say? And why didn’t you post it here for everyone to see?
Right now all our audience has is a “he said/she said” argument. They can’t check it themselves (neither can I), and by your own admission, the original post and comments are gone.
…I DO recall mentioning the pastor (or priest?) who tried to warn the coastal officials about the danger of the earthquake that resulted in the tsunami. His warnings were ignored.
I remember that part, too. As I understand it, there was no tsunami warning system in the Indian Ocean at that time (you quoted that yourself). One of the first stations to detect the seaquake that caused it was right in its path: Diego Garcia, a bump on the ocean which houses several facilities belonging to, or associated with, the US Navy. The other reason was the speed of the wave; the waters were coming ashore in Phuket within twenty minutes of the ‘quake. If the system had been in place, many of those lives would not have been lost—but 15~30 minutes gives very little time to seek high ground, and none at all for any delay.
Those two facts alone shed the most blame on human error. Even the animals instinctively knew to get to higher ground. Amazing how God gave them that ability!
Well, of course! Animals can’t upset your god, because they lack the capacity to sin, or the ability to worship him. He feels no need to kill them (although he did anyway, except for the ones on Noah’s barge). Still, human error didn’t cause the disaster, now did it?
So I blame the “officials” of the area who had hours to warn the public, but refused to do so (probably because of the money they would lose).
Got any evidence to back that speculation? I told you then and I remind you now: Dead people don’t spend money. Also, the travelers who survived all went home anyway, so the money was still lost.
About God’s plan. His ultimate plan will be carried out, despite the evil, sin, and death that unredeemed man causes on this earth.
Well, man—unredeemed or otherwise—didn’t cause that. According to many, that was Great Yahweh’s hand at work.
Why would a being who built the universe on a whim need any sort of ‘plan’ at all? If he wills it, it’ll happen, and if he doesn’t, it won’t. Which is why no one will go to ‘hell’ unless he wants them to.
There is a Bible verse that informs us that “your sin will find you out.”
Yeah. Ol’ Josh D______ and some other alleged Christians have found that out. All of them MUST have been familiar with that verse, and all behaved as if it didn’t apply to them personally.
People are punished by their sins, not for them.
I prefer men and women who are more likely to use their free will for good.
Well, we agree on that, at least. But if your god gave us free will, he doesn’t seem to trust us with it.
GM wrote: It’s been a nice intermission, but what has all this to do with Kim Davis?
Still waiting, hostess.
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