HT for graphic: qunfuz.files.wordpress.com
The topic of Zionism regarding the Jewish State of Israel, the politics of Zionism, and the various views of Zionism in today’s world is a difficult and often complicated one.
Recently, a new subscriber here at Talk Wisdom has posted some comments (many were, quite frankly, bizarre) that required a lot of research on my part in order to understand where he (she) was coming from because there are many forms of, and explanations regarding the term “Zionism.”
In the comment section of my previous post, I tried to begin tackling this complicated subject. The following is by no means an exhaustive review and/or commentary on Zionism, but I have included links to the Virtual Jewish Library that explains all of the different forms of Zionism and what they mean (according to that author at that site). I have decided to share some of my research in this new blog post, with the hope that those who may be confused (as I was!) regarding the many views and explanations on Zionism, would get a better idea of the differing types that can be researched. I welcome comments on all sides of this issue, as long as they are amicable and I especially encourage comments that add to the knowledge of the subject matter.
~ Christine
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Copy of comment written by Christine in previous post:
To commenter “Edom’s Thorn”:
I appreciate your willingness to get into the discussions here at Talk Wisdom. However, your first two comments a while back were so bizarre that I deleted them. The comment that you recently wrote for this post was better, but as you said within your own words – more research needs to be done regarding your claims.
Here is a copy of your comment:
EDOM created ISLAM!
When you have put all of this together in these articles, this is the only thing that makes sense.
“Why don’t these scriptures fit the so called “Gods Chosen”?
“EDOM: The Story Of Jacob And Esau Is Not Just A Story”
“The SYNAGOGUE Of SATAN: EDOMS PLAYGROUND”
“GENOCIDE, INFESTATION, INFILTRATION: The Beginning”Google and RESEARCH is needed!
EDOM created the “ILLUMINATI”….
EDOM CREATED the Catholic Church>>>>> WHERE there is a DESIRE, a “MAN” will discover the truth! But the “FOOL” will never understand! SEE PROVERBS 18:1-2
When I read some posts at your blog, I felt that you were putting down Israel and the Jews. We must remember that the Jews were God’s chosen people through which the Messiah of the world came – our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ
Look, I can understand why you write some of what you do, but God hasn’t “changed His mind” about Israel or the Jews. Jesus was born as a Jew in the Incarnation! The first Christians (called “The Way” back in those early days) were Messianic Jews. There are many Jewish converts to Christianity today. One such leader is Rabbi K.A. Schneider who appears on a program entitled “The Jewish Jesus.” You can read about him here.
I understand that there are disputes about Zionism, both in this country and others. There is the political side of it (advanced by mostly secular Jews) and the spiritual (more important!) side of Zionism (where Christians and Jews can agree – yet disagree about whether or not Jesus (Yeshua) is the Messiah).
It would take too long to explain it all, but suffice it to say that Christians are called to support the Jewish State of Israel and not require them to give up any land to the now terrorist supporting Hamas-led Palestinian Authority. Such a view is biblically based, but rejected by a lot of the secular leftist liberal progressives in the U.S. as well as around the world. Even U.S. presidents and leaders fall into this error by using political maneuvers to try to get Israel to give up the land that was given to them by God (Yahweh), and miraculously returned to them after the horrors of the Holocaust in WWII.
Of course this brief comment doesn’t cover all that needs to be said, but I wanted to acknowledge you for your comments here.
It might be helpful for you to read about these two separate forms of Zionism and why Christians support the spiritual side:
Jewish Virtual Library: Christian Zionism
In the section called “radical” Messianic Zionism, we read:
A religious claim provided strong justification for those who wished to hold on to the occupied territories: If the State of Israel was viewed as the unfolding of a Messianic scenario, then the miraculous victory of the Six-Day War was an essential stage in that process. The territories belong to the Jewish people (i.e., the State of Israel) by Divine decree and they may not be handed over to foreign hands.
The issue of territories, viewed in an eschatological context, became the defining feature for broad segments of religious Zionism in the post-1967 era.
Of course, the Jews would be expecting the first coming of their Messiah, while Christians view the coming of the Messiah as the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Yeshua).
There is also a section called “American Zionism” that used to be what most presidents here agreed with in the past. But when BHO was elected (unfortunately) it has taken a turn towards more of a sympathetic desire to take “land for peace” from Israel for the Palestinians, rather than continue to recognize the sovereign Jewish State and all the land that was promised by God in the Bible. IMO, this change is because BHO is both Marxist and pro-Islamic in his beliefs. That is why he has been more like an enemy towards Israel rather than a close friend to Israel as all of our former presidents have been.
Admittedly, some presidents (like Clinton and G.W. Bush) also pushed the “land for peace” idea in order to try and politically solve the dilemma and stop the ongoing wars between the Israelis and Palestinians. But I believe that they did so in hopes of stopping the attacks on the Jewish state by the Muslim/Arab Palestinians and finally gain peace in the region. Unfortunately, even when former PLO leader Yasser Arafat was given all that he wanted in a peace agreement, it was rejected. Why? Because the PLO Charter still had the goal of eliminating the Jewish State and pushing the Israelis into the sea. Such a mindset is even more evident in the region now that it’s under the terrorist organization of Hamas! We can see why the peace of Jerusalem will remain unreachable until Jesus Christ returns.
The difference with BHO in the White House is the fact that he hates Netanyahu (who, thank God, was in place as Prime Minister for such a time as this!) and sides with the Muslim world in practically everything!
Recall what Obama wrote in one of his books:
In “Audacity of Hope” he writes: “I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” The quote comes from page 261 of the paperback edition of “The Audacity of Hope.”
In the table of contents at the Jewish Virtual Library, we see a list of several named types of “Zionism.”
I still need to do more research regarding what you write about at your site. But some of the things you adhere to are not biblically based (IMHO) and might do damage towards what I am trying to accomplish here at this blog. Thanks, in advance, for understanding.
Christine
Talk Wisdom Administrator
P.S. For those who want to read what Proverbs 18:1-2 says, see the entire chapter HERE.
Hat tips to all links.
*******
Update at 8:50 a.m. PT on January 23, 2015.
WOW! It took 8 pages of “images” research on the StartPage search engine to find one positive photo and position on Zionism! There were 7 pages of images raging negatively against Zionism – labeling it as another form of “Nazism” and “racism.”!
Here’s the photo and caption:
HT for graphic: 4.bp.blogspot.com
Whew! Found another positive one on page 9.
HT for graphic: #Arab Hypocrisy
The link below is neat! The term “Zion” pictured in the Scriptures!
Tags: Bible, Christian Zionism, Christianity, Israel, Zionism
January 23, 2015 at 7:57 pm |
To Edom’s Thorn (again),
I replied to you over at the other post.
The reason I do not release comments (immediately) from newcomers is to investigate what they are claiming first, and then I go to their blog to see what their motive(s) are for posting here. As I stated previously, we will just have to agree to disagree.
I had instances in the past where a disgruntled “newcomer” proceeded to spam my blog incessantly because his/her comments in the pending box were being rejected for various reasons. I’m not claiming that you would do that, but due to such experiences, it is my policy to not release a comment in the first place when there are questionable claims and motives involved. This prevents any person from doing what that disgruntled newcomer did at my blog in the past.
Thank you for your understanding in this matter.
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January 23, 2015 at 10:43 pm |
[…] Source: Discussion Regarding the Term “Zionism.” […]
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January 24, 2015 at 4:15 pm |
Copy of Edom’s Thorn comment:
To Edom’s Thorn –
First of all, the term “bizarre” means “odd or unusual.” That is the way that I see some of what you have written.
Second, you have a “boycott Israel” graphic on your site. I totally disagree with that!
Perhaps you have other posts at your site that I could agree with. But your obvious hatred towards the land of Israel and odd view of the Jews was enough for me to not link to your blog.
Like I stated from the start, we will just have to agree to disagree regarding your views of the term, title, and relationship to God (Yahweh) concerning “the Jews.”
I linked to a website that contains a detailed explanation of the different aspects and views regarding “Zionism.” You, apparently, have your own opinion about it. So be it. But I disagree with many points that you have tried to make regarding the Jews, and therefore, do not care to continue a conversation about it. This is my blog and I have a right to accept or reject any comments that are posted here. You have the same option at your blog.
Readers here can put your blog name into a search engine and read all that you have written. Then, they can make their own decision regarding whether or not you are sharing the truth on this particular topic, as well as other topics where you have posted commentary.
Individuals can make assumptions and twist Scripture to say what they want it to say all the time. They can also make claims about themselves and others that are not true. For instance, in your above comment you quoted the Bible and one of the quotes was:
Then you wrote:
So, I must ask you… you claim to have “proved all things?” If so, where does faith fit in?
I have neglected to ask you whether or not you are a born-again Christian and whether or not you believe the following:
About being born-again in Christ:
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January 26, 2015 at 4:42 pm |
Edom’s Thorn,
You chose to ignore my questions regarding what you believe and whether or not you are a born-again follower of Jesus Christ.
Most of the time, genuine born-again believers are happy to state that they have made that all-important decision for salvation, and many are also glad to share their testimony.
Your neglect in such matters has proven me correct to not have approved your very first comment here.
I pray that you and your wife will one day know the truth, and through the salvation offered by the Father through His Son, Jesus Christ, that you will be saved.
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January 26, 2015 at 6:08 pm |
[…] posts there, some of his beliefs were quite bizarre. I copied and posted a few of his comments at this link, however, he became even more enraged at me for not posting all of his writings. I can understand […]
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January 26, 2015 at 8:01 pm |
Edom’s Thorn wrote:
To Edom’s Thorn –
I decided to copy and paste your last post here so that others can see what you believe, why you believe it, and how it differs from what many Christians believe.
As I presented before, there are many meanings to the term “Zionism.” Did you not notice the link that I had previously shared where the term is used in the Bible?
Blue Letter Bible – KJV Criteria “Zion.”
You lump all Jews together as if they cannot and will not be saved. Are you aware of Messianic Jews? Have you studied the book of Revelation? Do you not know that the 2 Witnesses are Jews (because the Rapture already occurred) and many Bible scholars believe that the 144,000 are saved Jews (after the Rapture) who evangelize for Christ during the Great Tribulation?
I have read about all of the NWO elites and Agenda 21 groups – but their “power” is under the ultimate control of God’s Eternal Power.
The State of Israel being returned to the Jews on the exact date that it had happened was prophesied in Scripture!
You can read several of my past writings regarding Israelat my former blog.
We are witnessing Bible prophecy right before our very eyes! And all of the ancient Arab states were listed in Psalms as ganging up against Israel in the last days.
Look, there is a lot of information that I could share, but you have your mind set on your own “research,” and therefore you reject the call to Stand with Israel. Just because there are bad actors (which come and go in history) doesn’t mean that we should abandon the land blessed by God and given to the Israelites forever!
There have been good leaders and bad leaders in Israel. Netanyahu was placed back in office by God for “such a time as this.” All that has transpired over the past 6 years (with two to go) regarding the unfriendliness and lack of protection of Israel can be partially blamed on The United States government – which is currently being badly run by BHO and his band of Marxists/Islamofascists.
We currently have a bad actor and all of his minions and puppeteers in our government! But does that mean that we inhabitants should abandon our nation? OF COURSE NOT!
Well, I’m glad that you have confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of your life. In light of our differences regarding Israel, we will continue to just have to agree to disagree.
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