Jehovah’s Witnesses – At my door – again.

 

Over the past 20 years or so, I have had at least 10 encounters with Jehovah’s Witnesses. Two nice women came to my door a few days ago and I “cut to the chase” immediately with them regarding their rejection of the Trinity and their false labeling of Jesus as “another god.”

I encouraged them to study the Bible on their own too, but they claim that they already have. One was a former Catholic, the other claimed to be a former “Christian” who “discovered” that the belief in the Trinity was not true. I challenged them with Scripture where Jesus says that we should go into all the world spreading the Gospel, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Mat 28:19

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I stated that the term “name” in the verse was used in the singular – and thus our God self-identifies as being triune in nature. The older woman claimed that if what I was saying was true, then the Scripture would have read, “baptizing them in the name of the Father, the name of the Son, and the name of the Holy Spirit. This was a ridiculous claim – on her part – but it just shows how deeply indoctrinated they are. I also said that Jesus claimed, “I and the Father are one.” She replied that he meant it as meaning that they are “one in agreement.”

Finally, I shared that our God had created a world in which we see the Trinity all around us, mentioning how we see it in the Bible, and in physics – especially regarding time and space.

[See post at my former blog: The Trinity All Around You]

At that point, they decided to depart, but wanted to leave their literature with me. I said, “no thank you, but please consider the possibility that what you are being taught could be wrong – then investigate for yourselves.”

 

Next time, I plan to be better prepared with a copy of “God in Three Persons” printed out so that I can hand it to them as they leave my door.

For convenience sake and future reference here at my Word Press Talk Wisdom blog, I include the relevant portion of the post below:

“The first few pages of the booklet discusses various Biblical references to the “God in Three Persons” nature of God. I can post this later if anyone here is interested. For now, I will just share a few brief points:

1. The first verse of the Bible we read, “In the beginning God [Elohim] created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). In Hebrew the word for “God” is Elohim. That word is plural. El is singular, but Elohim is plural. We know it is plural because it contains within it the personalities of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

2. We also read where God said, “Let us make man in our image….and in the image of God created he him”…in his own image (Genesis 1:26-27). “Us,” “Our,” “His.” And so over and over again, even in the Old Testament, when God speaks, He goes back and forth between the singular and the plural, the plural to singular, because He is the singular-plural God.

3. The facts of the Triunity of God are clearly seen in these four facts within the Bible:* The Father is God, said thousands of times.* The Son is God, said hundreds and hundreds of times.* And the Holy Spirit is God (Spirit of God in OT) is said dozens of times.* Finally, there is but one God.

Back to the main reason for this post.

In Dr. D. James Kennedy’s booklet entitled “Understanding the Trinity; Evidence for God in Three Persons,” Dr. Kennedy describes that the universe itself explains the Trinity.

Dr. Nathan Wood, formerly president of Gordon College of Theology and Missions, wrote a magnificent book, The Secret of the Universe. In it he spells out for us the result of years of searching in the natural realm for some kind of analogy that was correct for the Trinity. He finally came up with the universe itself.

It is so simple.

It is right there in front of us.

We can never get away from it.

It is always there.

We ought to see it very clearly.

He points out that any man who manufactures anything or makes anything with his hands is going to inevitably leave his fingerprints upon it. If you were to create a table or chair or something in your workshop, it would contain your fingerprints.

Dr. Wood says that the universe is covered with fingerprints of the Trinity because it was made by the Triune God. The Bible says that the Father created the universe, the Son created the universe, and the Holy Spirit created the universe – the Triune God created the universe.

What does Dr. Wood mean by that?

Well, there are fingerprints everywhere. We just don’t see them.

I would suppose that there are literally millions of fingerprints in this very sanctuary. Did you see any today? Not a one. We are blind as a bat when it comes to fingerprints. We just don’t see them. First of all, we’re not looking for them. Now you might see them at home on a mirror or something like that, but ordinarily, we don’t see fingerprints. However, if a detective were to come in here and begin to dust the wood on the pew in front of you, he would find thousands of them. So let’s put on our Sherlock Holmes cap, get out our dusting brush, and see if we can see the fingerprints of Him who made all things.

What does the universe consist of?

If you were to ask a scientist, he would tell you it consists of space, time, and matter. Now amazing to tell, we find all of those three things everywhere in the universe – not that we have a universe where some of them exist sometimes and not at other times. It is also true that each of the triune parts of the universe is, in itself, triune.

SPACE

Let us look at each one of them. For example, consider space. What is space composed of? It is composed of length and breadth and height. Always. There is nothing you could name that is not composed of all three of those things. If you were to simply take a pencil and draw a line on a piece of paper, it would have length, it would have a little bit of width, and if you looked in a powerful microscope, you would discover it has quite a bit of height. You can’t see it with your naked eye; however, it’s always there.

Something that I think is amazing about this is that God always consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit – not one or the other. It is not a piece of the pie; it’s the whole thing, always. Imagine a square block that a child would play with. Draw a picture of it in three dimensions. Then you could take that picture, and with a pencil and using all length, you could make a bunch of lines and fill in that entire block with nothing but length. I have done that sometimes in fancy lettering. Maybe some of you have as well. Or you could take the same block and make the whole thing out of width, or out of height. The fact of the matter is that it is all length, it’s all breadth, it’s all height all of the time. That’s a perfect illustration of the Trinity.

TIME

Or take the matter of time. Of what does time consist? Obviously, it consists of the past, the present, and the future – those three. Any time we have ever known in this universe always consists of those three. Usually we have the idea that we come out of the past, that that really is first, because that is where we came from. The fact of the matter is, time comes from the future, and we meet it head on.

For example, today, yesterday was called tomorrow, and now it’s today. A week ago it was called next week, and now it is today. A year ago, it was called next year. So as time approaches us and we move through it, that is what always happens. Anything is first in the future, then in the present, and then it disappears into the past. That is the way time always works. That in itself is an amazing story when you examine it carefully. Past, present, and future.

Dr. Nathan R. Wood gives a fascinating quote that is so remarkable I would like to share it with you. I would challenge you to try to see if you can follow his drift.

He is going to give a long paragraph. Then he is going to give it again, only this time he is simply going to change four words. These four words are “time,” “future,” “present,” and “past”. They are going to be changed into “God,” “Father,” “Son,” and “Holy Spirit.”

You are going to find out something some of you never knew before – that time, which you live by, which you look at constantly in the way of clocks you wind up every day, and which you make your lives run by, is an incredible illustration of the divine Trinity.

(Note: To make this paragraph easier to read, I will post it in a prose format).

Read carefully:

“The Future is the source.

The Future is unseen, unknown, except as it continually embodies itself and makes itself visible in the Present.

The Present is what we see, and hear, and know.

It is ceaselessly embodying the Future, day by day, hour by hour, moment by moment. It is perpetually revealing the Future, hitherto invisible.

The Future is logically first, but not chronologically.

For the Present exists as long as Time exists and was in the absolute beginning of Time.

The Present has existed as long as Time has existed.

Time acts through and in the Present.

It makes itself visible only in the Present.

The Future acts and reveals itself through the Present.

It is through the Present that Time, that the Future, enters into union with human life.

Time and humanity meet and unite in the Present.

It is the Present that Time, that the Future, becomes a part of human life, and so is born and lives and dies in human life.

The Past in turn comes from the Present.

We cannot say that it embodies the Present.

On the contrary, Time in issuing from the Present into the Past becomes invisible again.

The Past does not embody the Present. Rather it proceeds silently, endlessly, invisibly from it…

The Present therefore comes out from the invisible Future.

The Present perpetually and ever-newly embodies the Future in visible, audible, livable form; and returns again into invisible Time in the Past.

The Past acts invisibly.

It continually influences us with regard to the Present.

It casts light upon the Present.

That is its great function.

It helps us to live in the Present which we know, and with reference to the Future which we expect to see.

“That is an exact description of the way time operates. It is a perfect analogy. I’m using “analogy” not in the common sense of the word that something is like something or a simile or metaphor, but in the mathematical meaning of the word, which means it is an exact replica as far as every line, every angle, every corner is concerned.

SUBSTITUTE FOUR WORDS

Now let us replace the words. “Time” is replaced by “God”; the “Future” by the “Father”; the “Present” by the “Son”; and the “Past” by the “Holy Spirit” (every word the same but these four). You will see that perfect analogy and you will see the divine Trinity you have been swimming in all of your life!

“The Father is the source [every word the same, but those four].

The Father is unseen except as he continually embodies Himself and makes Himself visible in the Son.

The Son is what we see, and hear, and know.

He is ceaselessly embodying the Father, day by day, hour by hour, moment by moment.

He is perpetually revealing the Father, hitherto invisible.

The Father is logically first, but not chronologically, For the Son exists as long as God exists, and was in the absolute beginning of God.

The Son has existed as long as God has existed.

God acts through and in the Son.

He makes Himself visible only in the Son.

The Father acts and reveals Himself through the Son.

It is through the Son that God, that the Father, enters into union with human life.

God and humanity meet and unite in the Son.

It is in the Son that God, that the Father, becomes a part of human life, and so is born and lives and dies in human life.

The Spirit in turn comes from the Son.

We cannot say that He embodies the Son.

On the contrary God, in issuing from the Son into the Spirit, becomes invisible again.

The Spirit does not embody the Son.

Rather He proceeds silently, endlessly, invisibly from Him…

The Son therefore comes out from the invisible Father.

The Son perpetually and ever-newly embodies the Father in visible, audible, livable form, and returns into invisible God in the Spirit.

The Spirit acts invisibly.

He continually influences us with regard to the Son.

He casts light upon the Son.

That is His great function.

He helps us to live in the Son whom we know and with reference to the Father whom we expect to see.”

That, my friends, is an exact mathematical analogy that each of the portions of the triunity of the universe are in themselves triune.”

Our Creator is so awesome!! He reveals Himself all around us….in the existence of the universe He created!

 

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13 Responses to “Jehovah’s Witnesses – At my door – again.”

  1. eMatters Says:

    Good for you! Always good to plant seeds with them. If nothing else, you kept them from sharing their cult with others for a few minutes!

    Liked by 2 people

    • christinewjc Says:

      Thanks Neil – so nice to see you here! As you probably already know (and, may have experienced?) they are a tough-minded cult to break into with the Truth of the Gospel of Christ. What do you say to them when you have been approached?

      They think they know the Bible better than most Christians, so they assume that their errors will not be detected and/or challenged. Sometimes, unfortunately, that is very true. I’ve been there in the past, but my upbringing in Roman Catholicism helped me to at least recognize their error regarding the Trinity.

      Next time, I plan to ask them what kinds of reactions they have been getting from others on my block. I’m curious to know if anyone engaged in conversation with them or even opened their doors.

      Like

  2. Cry and Howl Says:

    As always you did a great job with this Christine!

    Liked by 1 person

    • christinewjc Says:

      Thank you Steve! I really appreciate it when you come over here and read my writings.

      Isn’t that analogy that was written by Dr. Nathan Wood amazing?

      I find that two of the most common objections to Biblical Christianity are the Virgin Birth of Christ, and the Trinity. Plus, people involved in other religions (as well as atheists) are forced to reject the Deity of Christ; otherwise they would not still cling to their religion.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. gmpilot Says:

    Full-on confrontation is the only way to deal with JWs. Charge right at them and they retreat; it’s not in their script.

    Liked by 1 person

    • christinewjc Says:

      Correct! What’s more, they usually don’t expect to have their specific beliefs challenged.

      These two women knew that they weren’t going to convince me, so they bid a hasty retreat. I hope that they come back some day so that I can give them a printout of Dr. Nathan Wood’s analogy. Maybe it will make them think a bit on their own and reconsider what they have been taught. However, I usually get different JW’s each time they knock on my door.

      I’m thinking about stocking up on some used copies of “So What’s the Difference?” by Fritz Ridenour. Amazon is selling them for just .50! That way, I can give them out too.

      I noticed that the updated version (mine is from 1967!) covers 10 more religions/cults.

      Like

  4. gmpilot Says:

    I don’t think much of Wood’s analogy, but I’ll let it pass. I’m not feeling combative today.

    You said they ‘knew’ they weren’t going to convince you. So, why should they come back?
    On the rare occasions they knock on my door I like to invite them in, but so far none have accepted. (Guess I can’t hide the horns well enough.)
    No one seems to like JWs. Other believers and nonbelievers alike seem to find them good for nothing but theological target practice.

    Liked by 1 person

    • christinewjc Says:

      Of course you wouldn’t “think much of Wood’s analogy” but the evidence is quite striking in favor of how our God in Three Persons – Blessed Trinity can also be seen in the world that Yahweh created.

      Even though it turned out that they realized my beliefs were steadfast, I found it interesting that they initiated the first signal of retreat.

      That encounter was the third time that I shared how Jesus used the singular of “name” in His command to baptize “them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

      Mat 28:19

      “Go therefore [fn] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

      Mat 28:20

      “teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. [fn]

      Each time that I shared Matthew 28:19-20, the JW’s were not successful in explaining that truth away. We can also see the Triune nature of God is other verses, such as:

      Gen 1:26

      Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness…

      You wrote:

      On the rare occasions they knock on my door I like to invite them in, but so far none have accepted. (Guess I can’t hide the horns well enough.)

      Ha ha hah! “can’t hide the horns well enough.”

      If there was a man within the group then maybe they would have entered?

      Months ago, while walking my dogs back towards my home I got into a conversation with a JW man who was canvassing our block with two of his children! They appeared to be around ages 8 and 11. I urged him to look into the history of JW’s and see how their leaders were swayed away from genuine Scripture exegesis. Haven’t seen them back, either.

      Not sure if their goal is actually “theological target practice.” Most of them seem sincere in their beliefs…although they happen to not realize that they are sincerely wrong! They certainly don’t appear to like to “witness” to those who would challenge their beliefs with the truth in Scripture.

      Like

  5. gmpilot Says:

    ”If there was a man within the group then maybe they would have entered?”

    No ‘ifs’ about it: the first pair was a man and a young girl, the second pair was a mature (and obviously married) couple. I’m not a physically imposing type, either. I can only suppose they had a quota of doors to knock on, and I would have diverted them and kept them from sharing their cult with others for a few minutes.

    ”Not sure if their goal is actually “theological target practice.” Most of them seem sincere in their beliefs…although they happen to not realize that they are sincerely wrong! They certainly don’t appear to like to “witness” to those who would challenge their beliefs with the truth in Scripture.”

    I did not say their ‘goal’ was to serve as theological target practice, but they almost always are such targets. Outside of their own group, I have yet to hear anyone say a nice word about them.
    The rest of the Body of Christ seems to feel that limb is…well, stunted.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. christinewjc Says:

    Hmmm…that’s interesting. Perhaps most JW’s are instructed to only “witness” at the door these days.

    Most JW’s that I have met have been very nice people. They just end up leaving my door thinking that I am wrong in my Bible-based beliefs, and they are right according to their Watch Tower writings.. But like I wrote before, they don’t like to be challenged with Scripture that contradicts what they have been taught. Therefore, they would rather head on down the street and try to convince someone else.

    You could be right about the quota idea. In fact, they are “works based” when it comes to their beliefs regarding salvation. There are two main groups within the organization – the 144,000 (which they think are those who hold important offices and make major decisions) and the “other sheep” who go door to door. They don’t have the same eternal future as the 144,000 and they must work hard to earn their salvation. That’s why they are so zealous.

    Of course, Christians believe that the 144,000 number in the book of Revelation 7:4-8 is a symbolic number referring to the 12 tribes of Israel.

    Their “limb,” as you called it, is not just stunted, it is in fact cut off. Their beliefs differ in so many ways. They deny the doctrine of the Trinity, they don’t believe that man has an immortal soul (they teach that the soul is not separate from the body). They believe that Christ was not God but God’s first created creature and thus they deny Christ’s deity. I think some I’ve met have claimed that Christ is “another god,” but maybe that was the Mormons. Oh yes…now that I think of it the JW’s believe that when Christ lived in heaven (before the Incarnation), he was known as the angel Michael. But when Christ came to earth, he was no longer an angel – just a man.

    In Christianity, Christ’s death was the complete payment for man’s sins (rom. 3:24,25; Col. 1:20; 1 Pet. 2:24; 2 Cor. 5;20). JW’s believe that Christ’s death provides the opportunity for man to work for his salvation: perfect human life for eternity on an Eden-like earth.

    JW’s believe that Christ was raised a “divine spirit.” They deny the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that Christ returned to earth – invisibly – in 1914 and now rules earth from heaven. They believe there is no hell or eternal punishment. Those who do not measure up to Jehovah’s standards will be annihilated,

    Briefly, those are the major errors of JW’s as compared to what the Bible teaches and what Christians believe. The history of this cult is very messed up and for those that they approach who do not know the Bible, they risk being caught up in this dangerous group.

    I know that you probably don’t need all of this information, but for the benefit of visitors who happen to come here to read this post and comments, I like to share these distinct differences. Hopefully, more Christians will learn of these JW cult errors and be forewarned when they encounter them.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Ancient Rock Believed to Offer Key Evidence of Biblical Account | Talk Wisdom Says:

    […] Holy Spirit and the way to salvation and eternal life. [For more about the Trinity, please see my previous post where the discussion in the post and comment section leads to Scriptural and Creation’s […]

    Like

  8. GMpilot Says:

    ”Their “limb,” as you called it, is not just stunted, it is in fact cut off.”
    See what I mean? You don’t speak well of them either! You don’t consider them to be Christian; you describe them as a cult. As I said, nobody has a nice word to say about them.

    ”Their beliefs differ in so many ways…They believe that Christ returned to earth – invisibly – in 1914 and now rules earth from heaven.”
    Unlike the standard version of Jesus, who will arrive with his angelic legions rather than simply de-cloaking among us. Isn’t “God is in control” a favorite phrase among Christians, anyway?
    If Jesus had arrived in 1914, it was a prime time to show his power: World War I was about to start, which would kill millions, and the flu epidemic three years later would kill tens of millions more. Who could blame any believer for thinking the end of the world was nigh? But the world didn’t end, and the war finally did…and no god was involved.
    BTW, they originally claimed Jesus had arrived in 1874! The revision was made in the 1920s.

    ”They believe there is no hell or eternal punishment. Those who do not measure up to Jehovah’s standards will be annihilated.”
    Maybe they feel that’s far more humane than a god of eternal vengeance. Just sayin’.
    Eternity is a very long time to hold a grudge.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. christinewjc Says:

    GM, I DID speak well of them – as persons. All JW’s that I have come in contact with have been very nice! However, I cannot speak well of their cultic beliefs…understand the difference?

    I have recently become acquainted with a very godly man who was once caught up in the Jehovah’s Witness’ skewed beliefs. I am looking forward to seeing him again and finding out his story regarding discovering the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and thus being able to break away from the JW’s errors.

    Thank you for the history clarification. The fact that they had tried to predict the return of Jesus several times over the course of history is another error on their part. Jesus told us that ‘we will not know the day nor hour’ of his return.

    The trouble is (with the annihilation claim) that we all have an eternal soul. Such a soul cannot be annihilated. God gives us our entire lives to be found by Him, return to Him and accept the path to salvation through Jesus Christ.

    You made your choice, and I have made mine.

    You (so far) have chosen not to believe in what was taught and done for us by our Savior; and thus you have chosen eternal separation from God forever. Your current attitude towards God shows that you hold a grudge against Him – despite the fact that He has provided for you and everyone who has ever existed on this earth a clear path to salvation.

    As commenter Ashley wrote in a previous comment thread:

    When skeptics ask the question “Why can’t ‘good’ people go to heaven if they haven’t accepted Christ?” it causes me to realize that they do not understand what heaven really is. Why would someone want to go to a place where the sole reason for its existence is to gaze upon the glory of the Lord and to be united with Christ? That’s where it doesn’t even make sense for people to argue or complain about entering the Kingdom of heaven when they don’t even know the purpose of heaven.

    [I] especially agree with your scriptures at the end–God is able to open our eyes to Him, but we MUST be willing to see. When God hardened people’s hearts (i.e. Pharaoh) in the OT, it was because they were unwilling to see. Therefore, God made it so they could not see. We do have a choice to see! How freeing!

    Also, the JW’s reveal that their beliefs rest on a “works based” scenario as is revealed in this sentence, “Those who do not measure up to Jehovah’s standards will be annihilated.”

    The truth is, because of sin, NONE of us can ever “measure up” to God’s Holiness! That is why He sent our Savior – Jesus Christ. The true Gospel is belief-based – and it matters greatly in Whom one choses to believe.

    Like

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