Is new ‘Exodus’ movie actually biblical?

Good question!  But according to what I read over at WND it isn’t likely. People already want to know if it’s going to be another non-biblical flop like “Noah” was.

Excerpt:

But as some sobering new statistics reveal, what movie audiences really want to know before they spend their money on a ticket … is whether the makers of “Exodus: Gods and Kings” are trying to pull another “Noah.”

The earlier film about the Flood, also boasting big-name talent and a blockbuster budget, took wild liberties with its biblical source material. By its director’s own admission, “Noah” was twisted into a tale far more about environmentalism than the judgment and mercy of God.

Consequently, Christian audiences – who make up the majority of film-goers in America – largely panned the movie, and “Noah” required international ticket sales to avoid losing tens of millions of dollars.

So far, the makers of “Exodus: Gods and Kings” haven’t done a good job of assuring audiences the movie is biblically accurate.

Earlier this month, Christianity Today reports, Christian Bale – who plays the part of Moses in “Exodus: Gods and Kings” – told reporters in Los Angeles he has a much more gritty vision of the biblical hero.

“I think the man was likely schizophrenic and was one of the most barbaric individuals that I ever read about in my life,” the actor said of Moses. “He’s a very troubled and tumultuous man who fought greatly against God, against his calling.”

Director Ridley Scott, who told the New York Times last year he’s an atheist, told Entertainment Weekly last week he looked to science, not miracles, to explain the amazing events recorded in Exodus.

So…we have an actor who makes Moses into a “much more gritty vision of the biblical hero,” and a director who is an atheist and makes the claim that an earthquake (environmentalism again??) caused the parting of the Red Sea.

With those two errors alone, the movie does not look promising in portraying the biblical account.

HT – WND

Read more at WND.com

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17 Responses to “Is new ‘Exodus’ movie actually biblical?”

  1. gmpilot Says:

    ”Is the new Exodus movie actually biblical?”
    I don’t know. Do the producers want to tell a human drama about humans, or do they want to depict barbaric cruelty and slaughter in the name of (and sometimes by) a god? Do they want to depict a fight against slavery and oppression, or do they want to explain the origin of belief customs of one particular religion?
    Usually, watching a movie is like eating a sandwich you made: what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.

    ”So…we have an actor who makes Moses into a “much more gritty vision of the biblical hero,” and a director who is an atheist and makes the claim that an earthquake (environmentalism again??) caused the parting of the Red Sea.”
    You should have seen what director Scott did with Robin Hood, a figure who’s at least as famous—or real—as Moses. His version of Robin Hood wasn’t much like the ones played by Errol Flynn or Richard Greene. Scott’s done much better work with gladiators, aliens, and ‘replicants’.
    What’s wrong with a “biblical-based” movie directed by an atheist? It’s not any different than a science movie produced by non-science people. That argument is a two-edged sword.

    ?With those two errors alone, the movie does not look promising in portraying the biblical account.”
    I’ve never seen the Harry Potter movies, but friends who have assure me that they are portrayed as potterally accurate. I know for a fact that King’s Cross Station in London is real, having been there, but I have to take their word on the rest of it.
    The ‘error’ would be if Exodus: Gods and Kings tries to pass itself off as a documentary. I do not believe the studio will try that.

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  2. gmpilot Says:

    We went over all this six months ago. If you’re going to complain about a biblical-based movie on the strength of what WND says about it…well, you knew it (and other films) was coming, didn’t you?

    Like

  3. christinewjc Says:

    It is a plain and simple fact that people who are not familiar with what is written in Scripture might be led to believe the heresy and apostasy put out by Hollyweird’s Christian haters. That is why most Christians rejected the “Noah” movie.

    I recently read somewhere online that “Noah” needed to be released in other countries quickly in order to recoup the millions of dollars it lost due to disinterest in both the movie release in theaters as well as DVD sales thereafter.

    A few days ago, I watched the original “Left Behind” movie (starring Kirk Cameron). It was good, but not the Hollywood blockbuster that secular audiences would crave. Out of the next two movies in the trilogy (Tribulation and Judgment), the movie “Judgment” has always been my favorite. So many of the lies presented by the kangaroo court case against God in the movie “Judgment” are being spewed these days – e.g.making Christians out to be “haters” and “terrorists” (as they were blamed for a bus bombing that the O.N.E. forces actually carried out in the movie) regarding our objections to various forms of moral depravity which has sadly and continually been legalized here in America over the past 30 years. Also, back in 2006 there was an actual Real Life God on Trial Plot in an Italian court!

    GM asked:

    What’s wrong with a “biblical-based” movie directed by an atheist?

    The simple answer is because an atheist does not understand what is truly being revealed in the Bible because of lack of discernment.

    Jesus told the Pharisees and Sadducees that their lack of discernment regarding the signs of the times made them “hypocrites” and part of the “wicked and adulterous generation.”

    Mat 16:1

    Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and testing Him asked that He would show them a sign from heaven.

    Mat 16:2

    He answered and said to them, “When it is evening you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red’;

    Mat 16:3

    “and in the morning, ‘It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Hypocrites! [fn] You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times.

    Mat 16:4

    “A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet [fn] Jonah.” And He left them and departed.

    Also see Hebrews 5 to see how important discernment of the Scriptures is for proper teaching; taking special note of the last two verses:

    Heb 5:13

    For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.

    Heb 5:14

    But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.</blockquote?

    Ultimately, it come down to having the ability to discern both good and evil. Lies are evil. Therefore, any atheist or other person who lacks such discernment ends up attempting to push their own lies and political agenda. Discerning Christians can easily see what is being pushed that is against biblical teachings. Therefore, the rejection of Bible truth by proponents of such practices end up being as (Jesus warned) in the "hypocrit[ical], wicked and adulterous generation" described in Matthew 16.

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  4. gmpilot Says:

    CJW: It is a plain and simple fact that people who are not familiar with what is written in Scripture might be led to believe the heresy and apostasy put out by Hollyweird’s Christian haters. That is why most Christians rejected the “Noah” movie.
    Apparently it wasn’t only Christians who rejected “Noah”. Special effects can’t save a bad movie, just as bad direction can’t kill a good one.

    I recently read somewhere online that “Noah” needed to be released in other countries quickly in order to recoup the millions of dollars it lost due to disinterest in both the movie release in theaters as well as DVD sales thereafter.
    Hollywood has released its films abroad since its beginnings, as I’m sure you know. It’s also true that a film made for American audiences may not succeed here, but do better in foreign markets. That happens rather often. Do you really believe Noah will find an audience in, say, Jordan?
    I always thought the financial profits mattered little to you, compared to the soul count Christians always try to boost.
    While you’re big on the Left Behind series, God’s Not Dead gets no mention from you. Nor from WND either, as far as I know.

    A few days ago, I watched the original “Left Behind” movie (starring Kirk Cameron). It was good, but not the Hollywood blockbuster that secular audiences would crave. Out of the next two movies in the trilogy (Tribulation and Judgment), the movie “Judgment” has always been my favorite. So many of the lies presented by the kangaroo court case against God in the movie “Judgment” are being spewed these days – e.g.making Christians out to be “haters” and “terrorists” (as they were blamed for a bus bombing that the O.N.E. forces actually carried out in the movie) regarding our objections to various forms of moral depravity which has sadly and continually been legalized here in America over the past 30 years.
    Uh huh…just as Muslim “terrorists” were blamed for the bombing of the Federal building in Oklahoma City, when it was actually a rogue Christian who did it. That was in real life, not some manufactured incident in a third-rate supernatural thriller. Even after Timothy McVeigh was captured and charged, no one ever hung the ‘terrorist’ label on him—that’s reserved only for non-Christians.

    CJW claimed, in reply to my question, What’s wrong with a “biblical-based” movie directed by an atheist?:
    The simple answer is because an atheist does not understand what is truly being revealed in the Bible because of lack of discernment.

    Discernment is defined as “the ability to see and understand people, things, or situations clearly and intelligently” (Webster).

    What’s to be discerned about “Exodus”? A Hebrew foundling is raised by the royal family of Egypt and lives a good life until one day he sees a fellow Hebrew being beaten by an Egyptian. He kills the Egyptian and flees, and then receives a message from his tribe’s deity to go back and lead the rest of his tribe to freedom from the Egyptians. We all know the story; how the deity hardened the king’s heart so he would refuse to listen to the divine messenger, whereupon the messenger pronounces that Egypt will suffer ten plagues, each worse that the previous one. The last of these was the slaughter of an entire generation in one night: the eldest offspring, from the king’s own son right down to the prime bulls among the cattle, all were slain. The king finally relented, but his heart was hardened yet again, and he pursued the Hebrews with elements of his army. The Hebrews escaped across the Red Sea, which legend says miraculously parted to let them escape, but the king and his forces drowned when the waters closed again.
    There’s a lot more, but that’s the exciting part, the part a filmmaker might emphasize. I think that’s simple enough for anyone to discern.

    There are other parts of that story where “discernment” might get one into trouble if they’re brought up in Bible Study class, but we won’t go into that now.
    Ultimately, it come down to having the ability to discern both good and evil. Lies are evil.
    Except when God tells them, of course.
    Besides, wasn’t the godlike ability to discern good from evil what got mankind kicked out of Eden?

    Therefore, any atheist or other person who lacks such discernment ends up attempting to push their own lies and political agenda.
    That would include you, considering the lies you’ve helped spread about you-know-who these past six years. Anyone who’s read this blog—even at random—since 2008 can discern that.

    Therefore, the rejection of Bible truth by proponents of such practices end up being as (Jesus warned) in the “hypocrit[ical], wicked and adulterous generation” described in Matthew 16.
    Except Jesus wasn’t warning of a ‘hypocrit[ical], wicked and adulterous generation’. Reading in context, he was
    declaring the people he was addressing to be of that very generation. Incidentally, the “hypocritical” part does not appear in Matthew 16, in either KJV or NIV.
    The immutable, unchanging word of God changed yet again.

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  5. christinewjc Says:

    GM wrote:

    I always thought the financial profits mattered little to you, compared to the soul count Christians always try to boost.

    The financial profit of that movie does not matter to me. I was just making the point that it bombed in U.S. theaters once the word got out that it was not only a badly produced counterfeit of the biblical story of Noah, but also a ridiculous attempt at blaming environmentalism for the flood.

    I did see “God’s NOT Dead” via iTunes and it was really good! It did very well at the box office, too. Just goes to show that good quality Bible-based Christian movies can do well in theaters.

    There are questions about whether or not there was a third bomber involved in the Oklahoma City bombing. If McVeigh labeled himself as a Christian, it certainly wasn’t evident in his actions. However, Muslim terrorists are following their Koranic teaches when they wage jihad in the world and commit all kinds of atrocities. They think that their killings and martyrdom through suicide/homicide bombings will hasten them toward being rewarded with 75 virgins in the afterlife. Boy are they going to be surprised when they get into eternity and realize that they believed a big lie.

    If you check out some of the synonyms (like “perceive”) for discernment, you get more detail regarding the meaning of such words:

    Word Origin and History for per-ceive

    c.1300, via Anglo-French parceif, Old North French *perceivre (Old French perçoivre) “perceive, notice, see; recognize, understand,” from Latin percipere “obtain, gather, seize entirely, take possession of,” also, figuratively, “to grasp with the mind, learn, comprehend,” literally “to take entirely,” from per “thoroughly” (see per ) + capere “to grasp, take” (see capable ).

    Proverbs discusses the need for wisdom, so both discernment of, and wisdom from the Scriptures are very important.

    Your link to Genesis 4 doesn’t contain any lies from God because God never lies. He is a Holy and Righteous Judge – which means that He punishes the wicked. If He didn’t, then he would not be a righteous judge.

    We have been over the good vs. evil argument many times. Like I have always said, Adam and Eve KNEW GOOD because they walked with God in the Garden of Eden. Their decision to sin by disobeying the one command to not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was their downfall. They listened to the Liar – Satan the serpent when they COULD have chosen to OBEY GOD in the first place. As a result, they were not allowed to eat of the tree of eternal life – because they would have lived forever in the state of sin and separated from God. Therefore, the Tree of Life reappears in the book of Revelation where believers in Christ will eat of it freely.

    You may choose to perceive what I have written about you-know-who as “lies,” but the evidence is out there. It just depends upon whether or not people have the wisdom, knowledge, and discernment capabilities to see through all of Zero’s lies.

    I was paraphrasing and included the word “hypocrite” from the former verse.

    Mat 16:3

    “and in the morning, ‘It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Hypocrites! [fn] You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times.

    Mat 16:4

    “A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet [fn] Jonah.” And He left them and departed.

    The footnotes for the NKJV says that the NU-text omits “hypocrites.” However, the parable being told by Jesus precisely warns the disciples to beware of “the leven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

    Mat 16:6

    Then Jesus said to them, “Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.”

    Mat 16:7

    And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “It is because we have taken no bread.”

    Mat 16:8

    But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, “O you of little faith, why do you reason among yourselves because you have brought no bread? [fn]

    Mat 16:9

    “Do you not yet understand, or remember the five loaves of the five thousand and how many baskets you took up?

    Mat 16:10

    “Nor the seven loaves of the four thousand and how many large baskets you took up?

    Mat 16:11

    “How is it you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread?—but to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

    Mat 16:12

    Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees

    “Leven” represents the false doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

    The scribes and Pharisees had already witnessed the miraculous multiplication of the loaves and fish recorded in Matthew 15 and they were called hypocrites in that chapter.

    Mat 15:7

    “Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

    Mat 15:8

    ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
    And [fn] honor Me with their lips,
    But their heart is far from Me.

    Mat 15:9

    And in vain they worship Me,
    Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ” [fn]

    GM wrote:

    Reading in context, he was declaring the people he was addressing to be of that very generation.

    But it also applies to all generations since then because all that Isaiah wrote in the verses [written over 500 + years before Christ came to the earth] that Jesus quoted from that prophet still are happening over the centuries.

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  6. gmpilot Says:

    CJW: …However, Muslim terrorists are following their Koranic teaches when they wage jihad in the world and commit all kinds of atrocities. They think that their killings and martyrdom through suicide/homicide bombings will hasten them toward being rewarded with 75 virgins in the afterlife.
    You’re not going to claim that Christians never have waged holy war or committed atrocities, are you? They may not bomb markets and schools now, at least not in the industrialized West, but don’t kid yourself. It has happened, and there are places in this world right now, where it still happens. You don’t know any more about Islam than I do, because you begin with the assertion that allah is a ‘false god’, and once you start from there, all the rest must be equally false. The only true god is the one you worship…which was a slightly different one, many years ago.

    But…back to the subject.

    Your link to Genesis 4 doesn’t contain any lies from God because God never lies.
    ”In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.” John 16:23 We all know how you felt about Obama, and I’m sure you prayed for his defeat. It must have worked, because right now President Romney is preparing to finally repeal the ACA once the midterms are over.

    “He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” (Matthew 17: 20) I’ve had an invitation to you for the past eight years—and any other believer—to move Mt. Hood to Nebraska, just for one day.
    Jesus said that believers would be able to do everything he did, and more. Not exactly a lie, and yet…still waiting. Maybe no one’s faith is big enough?

    I think god’s words in Genesis were unambiguously clear: “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil.” He did not want Adam to eat from the other Tree, because then he would gain eternal life, so he kicked A&E out of Eden and cursed their descendants, forever.
    Now he would have us believe he’s changed his mind (even though he says he “changes not”.) Maybe you can find a way to reinterpret those words, but I discern that you won’t.

    Mat 15:9
    And in vain they worship Me,
    Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

    Guess that leaves me out then. I’m not a worshiper.

    So many electrons sparked over a movie that you haven’t even seen, let alone liked! At least you waited for someone you knew to tell you about “Narnia”, and even then you went to see it yourself and make your own judgment. Perhaps
    this
    will put you in a less hypercritical frame of mind:

    “This moment of Hollywood’s renewed interest in the Bible is really a historic crossroads and opportunity for Christians. This is far more than an olive branch that has been extended to us. This is multi-million dollars of investment to the faith community’s prolonged cry that ‘If you film it, we will come.’ And if we fail to show up, then we absolutely have no ground to ever complain again to this generation of Hollywood execs.”

    How about waiting until its release and then seeing it? You might even get more blood than Mel’s movie had ten years ago.

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  7. christinewjc Says:

    GM wrote:

    You’re not going to claim that Christians never have waged holy war or committed atrocities, are you? They may not bomb markets and schools now, at least not in the industrialized West, but don’t kid yourself. It has happened, and there are places in this world right now, where it still happens.

    Christians are sinners in need of the Savior. Those who “waged holy war” in the past were not following Christ, but their own “religious” mindset.

    Jesus said that if we love Him, keep His commandments. Obviously, those who committed atrocities didn’t follow them.

    GM wrote:

    You don’t know any more about Islam than I do, because you begin with the assertion that allah is a ‘false god’, and once you start from there, all the rest must be equally false.

    How can you make that assumption? I have eyes to read, see the atrocities committed in the name of “allah,” and I have ears to hear the differences between Christianity and Islam. I can make the educated claim that allah is a false god because I have done the homework to prove it. Also, I have written Why Muslims Don’t Worship the Same God as Christians at my former blog.

    GM wrote:

    The only true god is the one you worship…which was a slightly different one, many years ago.

    When discussing Roman Catholicism vs. Protestants, it comes down to the differences they hold regarding authority. The following is a brief comparison from a book called, “So What’s The Difference?” by Fritz Ridenour:

    Protestants on Authority:

    The Bible is their sole guide for faith and life (2 Tim. 3:16,17; 1 John 5:13; Deut. 12:32)

    They are free to read the Bible and interpret its meaning–with guidance from the Holy Spirit (John 5:39; Rom. 15:4; John 14:26; 1 John 2:27).

    No human being is infallible and only Christ is head of the church which is His Body (Eph. 1:22; Col. 1:18).

    *******

    Catholics on Authority:

    Both the sacred Scriptures and the sacred tradition of the church are to be regarded as authority for faith and life.

    Interpreting of Scripture is subject finally to the judgment of the church, “which carried out the divine commission and ministry of guarding and interpreting the Word of God.”

    When the Pope speaks ex cathedra (from the chair) on matters of faith and morals, he, as Vicar of Christ–ruler of the visible church on earth, is infallible.

    You can get the updated book on Amazon and read in more detail about these differences as well as the comparison of Christianity to 20 other religions.

    The quote about “asking of the Father in Jesus’ name” is explained in more detail in this commentary, especially in the following portion:

    16-22. A little while, and ye shall not see me; and again a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father–The joy of the world at their not seeing Him seems to show that His removal from them by death was what He meant; and in that case, their joy at again seeing Him points to their transport at His reappearance amongst them on His Resurrection, when they could no longer doubt His identity. At the same time the sorrow of the widowed Church in the absence of her Lord in the heavens, and her transport at His personal return, are certainly here expressed.

    23-28. In that day–of the dispensation of the Spirit (as in Jhn 14:20 ).
    ye shall ask–inquire of
    me nothing–by reason of the fulness of the Spirit’s teaching ( Jhn 14:26 16:13; and compare 1Jo 2:27 ).

    24. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name–for “prayer in the name of Christ, and prayer to Christ, presuppose His glorification” [OLSHAUSEN].
    ask–when I am gone, “in My name.”

    25. in proverbs–in obscure language, opposed to “showing plainly”–that is, by the Spirit’s teaching.

    26. I say not. . . I will pray the Father for you–as if He were not of Himself disposed to aid you: Christ does pray the Father for His people, but not for the purpose of inclining an unwilling ear.

    27. For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me–This love of theirs is that which is called forth by God’s eternal love in the gift of His Son mirrored in the hearts of those who believe, and resting on His dear Son.

    28. I came forth from the Father, &c.–that is, “And ye are right, for I have indeed so come forth,and shall soon return whence I came.” This echo of the truth, alluded to in Jhn 16:27, seems like thinking aloud, as if it were grateful to His own spirit on such a subject and at such an hour.

    It is always more clear when you read, study, and consider the surrounding verses (as well as other verses throughout the Bible that apply) rather than just taking one verse out of context to suit your own mindset and/or cause.

    I have already explained the “mustard seed” allegory and it’s true meaning to you several times. You continue to believe your own opinion(s) about it. So be it.

    God is the Alpha and Omega. He knows the beginning, the present, and the end. Man’s sin came as no surprise. But He loved us anyway and sent His Son as a ransom for many. John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

    That one verse counters your claims.

    About Matthew 15:9. Here is your assignment. Read the entire chapter and then discern why that verse is in there and what it means. Here the link:

    Matthew 15:9

    Pssst! Scroll down and find the answer here: Blue Letter Bible commentary on Matthew 15

    Your comment and link to “Relevant” (more like Irrelevant!) magazine is, quite frankly just laughable. When the actor who is supposed to be portraying Moses says what he does about Moses and also trashed God in the Old Testament, then I don’t see why he should expect Christians to respect ANYTHING out of Hollyweird.

    The narrative presented in that article is that Christians should be “tolerant” of the inaccuracies presented in the movie. Yet, Hollyweird NEVER tolerates Christian belief. Talk about hypocrisy!

    The only good thing written over there is this:

    The common refrain is that Hollywood is changing the Bible. This, of course, is not accurate. The Bible is unchanged

    The truth is, Hollyweird IS TRYING to skew what is written in the Bible when they present lies.

    Our victory in all of this is the fact that the Bible is unchanged.

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  8. gmpilot Says:

    CJW says:

    Christians are sinners in need of the Savior. Those who “waged holy war” in the past were not following Christ, but their own “religious” mindset.
    Jesus said that if we love Him, keep His commandments. Obviously, those who committed atrocities didn’t follow them.

    Ah, the ‘no true Scotsman’ fallacy! No True Christian™ would commit atrocities, therefore the people who did that weren’t True Christians. Christine, have you ever considered that Muslims make the same statement about their people? Those Muslims can also be said to be following their own ‘religious’ mindset. The few Muslims I’ve met are appalled at what’s been done in their (and allah’s) name.
    So now it’s come to this, has it? Denying atrocities because the ‘right’ people didn’t do them?

    GM wrote:
    You don’t know any more about Islam than I do, because you begin with the assertion that allah is a ‘false god’, and once you start from there, all the rest must be equally false.
    How can you make that assumption? I have eyes to read, see the atrocities committed in the name of “allah,” and I have ears to hear the differences between Christianity and Islam. I can make the educated claim that allah is a false god because I have done the homework to prove it. Also, I have written Why Muslims Don’t Worship the Same God as Christians at my former blog.
    I make that assumption because of the fallacy you made above about how “real” Christians wouldn’t do despicable acts.
    Jews don’t worship the same god as Christians either: Jesus was one of them, but he is not regarded the same way as Christians regard him. Jews talk directly to their god, while Christians need a go-between, a “bridge” to span the gulf between them and their god. They regard Jesus as that bridge. Yet Christians have done horrible things to the Jewish people in the past even though they claim the Jewish god and their god are one and the same.

    GM wrote:
    The only true god is the one you worship…which was a slightly different one, many years ago.
    When discussing Roman Catholicism vs. Protestants, it comes down to the differences they hold regarding authority. The following is a brief comparison from a book called, “So What’s The Difference?” by Fritz Ridenour:
    If I were were a Hindu from a village in India, or a Navajo in Arizona, I would see little difference between a Catholic Christian and a Protestant Christian. Both call themselves “Christian”, both teach essentially the same thing (we’re all sinners, etc), and both claim to know the way to escape the wrath of the loving god and achieve supreme happiness. They may dress somewhat differently and have slightly different rules and modes of worship, but that’s about it; to a non-Christian, there’s only a sliver of daylight between them since they’re so much alike.

    I have already explained the “mustard seed” allegory and it’s true meaning to you several times. You continue to believe your own opinion(s) about it. So be it.
    I believe that Jesus claimed that “nothing shall be impossible unto you”, not “some things might not be possible unto you”. He said “Anything you ask the Father in my name…”, not “some things”.
    Since Protestants are free to read the Bible and interpret its meaning—and since the holy spirit doesn’t seem to be everywhere at once—people are free to interpret it literally, and many of them do (and start new sects). Anyway, the “mustard seed” quote is what all Christians claim; if they can’t deliver, so be it.

    Interpreting of Scripture is subject finally to the judgment of the [Catholic] church, “which carried out the divine commission and ministry of guarding and interpreting the Word of God.”
    But you accept the ‘interpretation’ of authorities at BLB, who are also carrying out the divine commission and ministry of guarding and interpreting the Word of God. Like I said, there’s very little daylight between the two.

    The narrative presented in that article is that Christians should be “tolerant” of the inaccuracies presented in the movie. Yet, Hollyweird NEVER tolerates Christian belief. Talk about hypocrisy!
    I guess you never saw all those biblical movies from sixty years ago, then: Ben-Hur (which even then was not the first time it was filmed), Solomon and Sheba, The Ten Commandments. All well-reviewed, all blockbuster hits…and all, probably, not very accurate. After all, it was Jewish legend seen through Christian eyes.

    The truth is, Hollyweird IS TRYING to skew what is written in the Bible when they present lies.
    Our victory in all of this is the fact that the Bible is unchanged.

    Um…how many flavors of bible are there over at BLB? Six? Twelve? Fifteen? Maybe the bible suffers from a “one size fits all” problem…

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  9. christinewjc Says:

    In Deuteronomy 30:15, 19 we can glean the choice that God gave to Adam and Eve and also to all of us.

    I (God) have (has) set before you (us) today life and good, death and evil…therefore choose life.

    I see that you, GM, continue to challenge what I have shared many times before; both here in this thread and over the years. The reason is precisely because you choose to ignore and out rightly reject what I write in answer to your assertions. Perhaps someone else will one day reach you. I don’t know. I certainly hope so.

    But for the purpose of those who may come along and read this thread, I will share Dr. Jeremiah’s words and the Scriptures he shares in order to back up what he is saying in the hope that they will consider what he encourages both believers and non-believers to do:

    We can’t do tomorrow’s work today any more than we can pass backward in time to reverse yesterday’s failures. The Lord assigns our work in the present tense, distributes His grace in the present, and tells us, “Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation” (2 Corinthians 6:2).

    In Isaiah 55, we have an urgent biblical warning about salvation: “Seek the LORD while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord…for He will abundantly pardon” (Isaiah 55:6-7). But the same chapter also stresses the urgency of sharing the Gospel with those needing Christ: “For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven…so shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me void” (Isaiah 55:10-11).

    If the Lord could come at any time, then He could come today. That’s why today is the day of salvation. How sad to wait too long! When it comes to being saved–or to sharing the Gospel of salvation–today is the day to act. If you need Christ as your Savior, you can trust Him right now. In prayer, you can quietly and simply ask Him to forgive your sins and to change your life. You can acknowledge Him as your risen Redeemer and commit your life to Him right here, wherever you are as you read these words.

    Source: Turning Points magazine and devotional, November, 2014 entitled, “Perhaps Today.” p.18.

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  10. gmpilot Says:

    In Deuteronomy 30:15, 19 we can glean the choice that God gave to Adam and Eve and also to all of us.
    I (God) have (has) set before you (us) today life and good, death and evil…therefore choose life.

    Funny he didn’t say that to the Egyptians, or to Amalek, or to the Ammonites, or to the Horites. The people of Ai, and Jericho, and Makkedah, and Gezer, and Hebron, and Sisera, and the land of Goshen, never had the chance to ‘choose life’. They were given no more choice than cornstalks in the field, and for the same reason: god had designated them as food for the sword.
    Obviously, the choice is not given to all of us.

    I see that you, GM, continue to challenge what I have shared many times before; both here in this thread and over the years. The reason is precisely because you choose to ignore and out rightly reject what I write in answer to your assertions. Perhaps someone else will one day reach you. I don’t know. I certainly hope so.
    Your blog buddy steve once told me that he didn’t give a ‘rat’s patootie’ whether he ‘reached’ me or not. I always thought a certain amount of enthusiasm was involved in spreading the so-called Good News! If you’re just going through the motions, don’t expect to convince a non-believer.

    But for the purpose of those who may come along and read this thread, I will share Dr. Jeremiah’s words and the Scriptures he shares in order to back up what he is saying in the hope that they will consider what he encourages both believers and non-believers to do:
    In Isaiah 55, we have an urgent biblical warning about salvation: “Seek the LORD while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord…for He will abundantly pardon” (Isaiah 55:6-7). But the same chapter also stresses the urgency of sharing the Gospel with those needing Christ: “For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven…so shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me void” (Isaiah 55:10-11)
    Of course, in Isaiah 1, the bible’s a bit more blunt:

    ”If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the good things of the land;
    but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword.”
    For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.
    (1:19~20)

    Food for the sword. If the attributes for god are true, he knew their destiny even before he made them. No “choice” involved.

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  11. christinewjc Says:

    Steve can certainly speak for himself here if he chooses to and I can’t really speak for him, but from what I have seen of his former comments to you, he has figured out that you aren’t here for the purpose of being reached.

    The Isaiah verses refer to the choice of “life and good” vs. “death and evil.

    David Guzik’s commentary explains:

    2. (10-11) The glorious operation of the Word of God.

    For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and do not return there, but water the earth, and make it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

    a. For as the rain comes down: Using the figure of the water cycle, the LORD illustrates the essential principle that His word shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please. Rain and snow come down from heaven, and do not return before serving their purpose on earth (they water the earth, and make it bring forth and bud). The rain and snow eventually do return to heaven, but not before accomplishing their purpose on earth. Even so, God’s Word, when He sends it down from heaven, does not return to Him void. Instead, it always fulfills His purpose on earth.

    i. This means that God is not just “all talk.” When He talks, His words accomplish His intended purpose. The word of the LORD has power, and it never fails in His intended purpose.

    As I have mentioned many times before, it is always good and important to consider the verses before and after the quoted verse for greater context. Plus, if you read the verses along with the entire commentary, you will gain a much better understanding that Isaiah was writing about An Invitation to Receive the Glory of the LORD’s Restoration.

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    • gmpilot Says:

      Steve can certainly speak for himself here if he chooses to and I can’t really speak for him, but from what I have seen of his former comments to you, he has figured out that you aren’t here for the purpose of being reached.
      If you can remember that far back, please recall that I originally came to your forum because I believed that your premises were wrong, and I wanted you to know why I thought so. It wasn’t a question of ‘being reached’.
      All I’m saying is that steve said he didn’t care one way or the other if I heeded his words. If he can’t be sincere about his religion, there’s no reason why I should be enthused about it.

      As I have mentioned many times before, it is always good and important to consider the verses before and after the quoted verse for greater context. Plus, if you read the verses along with theentire commentary>, you will gain a much better understanding that Isaiah was writing about An Invitation to Receive the Glory of the LORD’s Restoration.
      I read and understood the passage in its context, and Guzik was not needed to tell me that. But the basic message is unchanged: when god deals with his people, one hand holds the grace and the other hand holds the mace. The cities and people I listed above were never given a chance to “choose life”; god had them exterminated. You’re not going to sit there and deny that, are you?

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  12. christinewjc Says:

    GM wrote:

    If you can remember that far back, please recall that I originally came to your forum because I believed that your premises were wrong, and I wanted you to know why I thought so. It wasn’t a question of ‘being reached’.

    Therein lies the problem. Your purpose for being here is completely the opposite of my purpose(s) for writing this blog.

    I think that you are wrong about Steve [not] “being sincere about his religion.” It is more about faith, rather than that broad term “religion.” Not every Christian chooses to participate in the work (nor, does every Christian have the gift) of apologetics. Many are here for other worthy purposes, and God gives severally [Note: see relatively – especially in word origin – “mid-15c., “relatively;” 1620s, “relatively to each singly,”] in such matters.

    Speaking biblically, when Steve said what he did to you he was probably utilizing what Jesus said about shaking the dust off under your feet as a testimony against them.

    YOU are the one who admitted to not WANTING to be reached. You are only here to challenge my beliefs and attempt to impose your own lack of belief upon me. Sorry – no can do! Christ and his promises to believers wins out with me now and throughout eternity.

    GM wrote:

    I read and understood the passage in its context, and Guzik was not needed to tell me that. But the basic message is unchanged: when god deals with his people, one hand holds the grace and the other hand holds the mace. The cities and people I listed above were never given a chance to “choose life”; god had them exterminated. You’re not going to sit there and deny that, are you?

    How do you know that those peoples were never given a chance to choose life? We would need to dig deep into historical documents in order to find the truth of the matter. However, we DO have other examples of peoples who refused to repent. Take the example of Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham asked to spare the city if 50 persons could be found who were righteous. Then the request dwindled down to 40, then 30, then 20, then 10. As we know, the only righteous people found were in Lot’s family so they were warned to flee by the angels before the city and all of its wicked and sinful inhabitants were destroyed. Then, Lot’s wife looked back (ignoring the warning not to) and turned into a pillar of salt! Her longing for, and desire not to leave that city of sin showed what was truly in her heart – and she was far from God’s righteousness, holiness, mercy and forgiveness; precisely because she ignored the angels of God and their warnings and thus she refused to repent.

    We all have a conscience. It is built within us to know right from wrong. When Adam and Eve sinned, they knew that they had chosen evil and death rather than the good and life that they enjoyed with God. Therefore, the plan of salvation was devised in order to save people from their sins and be reconciled back unto God through the coming Messiah – Jesus Christ. All of the Old Testament saints who believed in God the Father and looked forward to the coming of the Messiah were saved. Once Christ appeared, preached, suffered, and died on the cross; then was resurrected unto life and ascended into heaven to be at the right hand of the Father, people had no excuse for not believing in Him.

    I will be doing a post soon (may take a while) where the connections between the Old Testament prophets who prophesied (about the coming Messiah Jesus Christ) and how it relates to the end times, the Jews, and the return of Christ – who is the King and the Jewish Messiah – who will usher in the Millennial Kingdom that will fulfill what God promised the Israelites of the Old Testament regarding their Messiah. What the Jews expected of their Messiah didn’t occur at Christ’s first coming here on this earth, but such prophecies WILL be fulfilled at His second coming. This is what connects Judaism to Christianity, even though the Jewish people of today {except Messianic Jews who accept Yeshua) reject the Lordship of Christ now, it will not forever be so in the end times, during the earthly Millennial kingdom, and ultimately in the eternal state.

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    • gmpilot Says:

      Speaking biblically, when Steve said what he did to you he was probably utilizing what Jesus said about shaking the dust off under your feet as a testimony against them.
      Hmm, whatever happened to your “Steve can certainly speak for himself here if he chooses to and I can’t really speak for him” ?

      YOU are the one who admitted to not WANTING to be reached. You are only here to challenge my beliefs and attempt to impose your own lack of belief upon me. Sorry – no can do! Christ and his promises to believers wins out with me now and throughout eternity.
      Followers of Allah and Krishna and a hundred more say the very same thing you do, but you call them “false”, and that’s the mildest of the things you call them. To me, Christianity is no better nor worse than the rest of them; I’m an equal-opportunity unbeliever.
      I don’t ‘impose’ my lack of belief on anyone, but I won’t evade the question if anyone asks. You don’t!

      How do you know that those peoples were never given a chance to choose life? We would need to dig deep into historical documents in order to find the truth of the matter…
      When did you ever prefer dusty factual documents over the shining Word of God™? If we dig deep into historical documents we’d probably find out that the Egyptians and Chinese (among others) have no records of a super-flood that drowned their nations!
      How do I know those peoples were never given a chance to ‘choose life’? Because god declared them to be food for the sword in Deuteronomy 7:

      When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you—
      and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. (7:1, 2)

      The BLB can detail the rest. The King James is better, but I know you prefer the NIV.

      I will be doing a post soon (may take a while) where the connections between the Old Testament prophets who prophesied (about the coming Messiah Jesus Christ) and how it relates to the end times, the Jews, and the return of Christ – who is the King and the Jewish Messiah – who will usher in the Millennial Kingdom that will fulfill what God promised the Israelites of the Old Testament regarding their Messiah.
      I got time. Come out swingin’!

      What the Jews expected of their Messiah didn’t occur at Christ’s first coming here on this earth, but such prophecies WILL be fulfilled at His second coming.
      So, god told the Israelites “I shall send my son to earth twice. The first time only the Gentiles will believe him, but the second time you will, and then my kingdom will be established.” That’s quite a statement—is there anything in the Jewish scriptures that supports it?
      I don’t see what all this has to do with the supposed inaccuracies of a movie you haven’t even watched, though.

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  13. Anticipation of the Kingdom | Talk Wisdom Says:

    […] a previous blog post thread, GMPilot wrote a comment where he challenged God’s goodness and righteous judgment upon […]

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  14. christinewjc Says:

    About Steve – notice I stated that he probably utilized such Scripture in his decision not to witness to you.

    The new post is up waaay up to the top of the blog past all of the other posts you have ignored. In that new post I mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of unrepentant sinners (whose inequities and hatred of God and His Laws were legion) In reference to your demand for answers as to why those peoples needed to be destroyed:

    2-6. thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them–This relentless doom of extermination which God denounced against those tribes of Canaan cannot be reconciled with the attributes of the divine character, except on the assumption that their gross idolatry and enormous wickedness left no reasonable hope of their repentance and amendment. If they were to be swept away like the antediluvians or the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, as incorrigible sinners who had filled up the measure of their iniquities, it mattered not to them in what way the judgment was inflicted; and God, as the Sovereign Disposer, had a right to employ any instruments that pleased Him for executing His judgments. Some think that they were to be exterminated as unprincipled usurpers of a country which God had assigned to the posterity of Eber and which had been occupied ages before by wandering shepherds of that race, till, on the migration of Jacob’s family into Egypt through the pressure of famine, the Canaanites overspread the whole land, though they had no legitimate claim to it, and endeavored to retain possession of it by force. In this view their expulsion was just and proper. The strict prohibition against contracting any alliances with such infamous idolaters was a prudential rule, founded on the experience that “evil communications corrupt good manners” [ 1Cr 15:33 ], and its importance or necessity was attested by the unhappy examples of Solomon and others in the subsequent history of Israel.

    Source: Robert Jamieson commentary

    GM wrote:

    So, god told the Israelites “I shall send my son to earth twice. The first time only the Gentiles will believe him, but the second time you will, and then my kingdom will be established.” That’s quite a statement—is there anything in the Jewish scriptures that supports it?

    Go read the new post.

    GM wrote:

    I don’t see what all this has to do with the supposed inaccuracies of a movie you haven’t even watched, though.

    We may have drifted off the topic a bit, but the question regarding whether or not the upcoming movie would be biblically accurate (or, even based on some semblance of truth) and your subsequent questions led this comment thread in the direction that it has become. Perhaps it’s time to move on. Go read “Anticipation of the Kingdom” post.

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