Agents Of The Apocalypse Discussion

Agents of the Apocalypse. Watch all the messages on this all-new website. Watch Now

 

In a previous post, I wrote about a new series and book coming out by Dr. David Jeremiah of Turning Point ministries. The series is based on his new book called “Agents of the Apocalypse.”

So far, I have seen three episodes over the past 3 Sundays. They were excellent! This series explains why the chaos is happening and how the Bible predicted such things the closer we get to the end times. The first was very informative, the second one was very sobering, and the third was quite enlightening.

I have pre-ordered the book, but it won’t be released until sometime later in October.

Whenever I recommend a preacher, pastor and/or book, I like to be sure that they are biblically based in their teachings. When I read that there would be fictional accounts at the beginning of each chapter, I was a bit concerned that in doing so, the author might stray from what is written in Scripture in order to increase the entertainment value. This was seen (in a big way) with the recent “Noah” film. In fact, that movie strayed so far from Scripture that it should have been named, “The Rock Creatures”…or something else! Noah’s character was truly unrecognizable when you compared Russell Crowe’s role in the movie to the biblical account of Noah and his family. But I digress.

I wrote a letter to Dr. Jeremiah several weeks ago because I had some concerns about the fictional accounts that I was able to read at the website before the upcoming release of the book. Below, is my letter, and then the response I received. I was glad to get a response, but a bit disappointed that some of my questions were not directly addressed. Also, the response was not signed by whomever wrote it.

Anyway, here is my letter, and then the response letter. Talk Wisdom reports – you decide.

Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 8:53 AM

To: info Subject: Questions

 

 

Dear Dr. Jeremiah,

 

I have been a longtime believer in Jesus Christ and have been watching your Turning Point broadcasts for several years.  I have always been blessed, and grateful, that your sermons and books have been biblically based.  I understand that the new book coming out soon – “Agents of the Apocalypse” will contain fictional accounts that fill in the gaps within the book of Revelation.  However, the September, 2014 devotional states that “nothing that is in the Bible has been altered.”  Well, I found something in Chapter Two – “The Martyrs” [fictional] excerpt online that is questionable because it does not correct the belief that “the Jewish leaders murdered Jesus.”

 

The first pages of church history tell of Stephen, who was stoned to death for insisting that the Jewish religious leaders had murdered Jesus (Acts 7).

 

Perhaps I am wrong, but I did not read this in Acts 7.  The fact is, also, that Jesus laid His own life down of His own accord.  Recall the verses where Jesus could have called down legions of angels to rescue Him from the cross.  If He did that, then the penalty for sin would not have been paid and Jesus would have re-entered heaven alone.  The second fact is that we all are guilty of sin.  Therefore, every human being on earth is responsible for the death of Christ on the cross.

 

I do not mean to lecture you, Dr. Jeremiah.  I know that your knowledge of the Bible is light-years above mine.  But when I read that sentence from the [fictional] excerpt in chapter two, an alarm bell went off in my mind.  You see, decades ago, I was raised Catholic and in Catholic tradition, the teaching that “the Jews killed Jesus” was prevalent.  They may have since backed off from such teachings since I left that church and joined a non-denominational Bible-based Christian church.   It is a long story, but I became a born-again believer in Christ back in 1978, ended up as a back slider; but rededicated my life to Christ after joining a Bible study on the book of John in 1993.  It was during this study that  I noticed that a lot of the Catholic church dogma did not line up with Scripture.

 

Another question that I have is about Zionism.  In the [fictional] excerpt of Chapter 3 – “The 144,000” there is a sentence that reads:

 

Most Jews in Israel were now Zionists, more secular than religious.

  

Perhaps I am wrong about this disagreement, too, but I have always thought that Zionism was a good thing for Israel.  The entire Palestinian/Israeli ongoing war is because the Palestinians (and their Muslim terrorist backers, as well as the U.S. leftist backers who don’t believe in Bible truth) think that God did not give the land to the Jews and it should be carved up and divided.

 

I know that you don’t have time to read it all, but I have written about the two views of Zionism at my former blog:

 

http://talkwisdom.blogspot.com/2013/02/refuting-anti-zionism.html

 

Jewish Virtual Library: Christian Zionism

Excerpt:

 

Christian Zionism can be defined as Christian support for the Zionist cause — the return of the Jewish people to its biblical homeland in Israel. It is a belief among some Christians that the return of Jews to Israel is in line with a biblical prophecy, and is necessary for Jesus to return to Earth as its king. These Christians are partly motivated by the writings of the Bible and the words of the prophets. However, they are also driven to support Israel because they wish to “repay the debt of gratitude to the Jewish people for providing Christ and the other fundamentals of their faith,” and to support a political ally, according to David Brog, author Standing With Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State.

 

 

This leads me to ask, which type of Zionism is referred to in your new book?  Perhaps these answers will be very evident when I read the entire book.

 

Thank you for all that you do in your excellent ministry, Dr. Jeremiah.  I do not wish to question your motives in this upcoming book.  However, with so many pastors and preachers moving towards heresy (e.g. Rick Warren getting involved with Chrislam – a mixture of Christianity and Islam) we must all be diligent enough to be careful not to contradict the truth of the Bible in these very difficult times.

 

Thank you for reading.

 

Sincerely,

Christine  W.

 

The response:

Date: September 16, 2014 at 11:49:35 AM PDT

Subject: Response from Turning Point

Dear Christine,

 

Thank you for your encouraging email and for your confidence in asking such an important question, “Who killed Jesus?”

 

Christine, there are four major points that have to be made in answering the question.

 

  1. The Romans killed Jesus.  Pilate, the Roman governor, could have freed Jesus, but to preserve his standing with the mob, he willing[ly] delivered Jesus to be crucified (John 18:29 – 19:30; Mark 15:15).
  2. The Jew killed Jesus.  The Jew cried, “His blood be on us and on our children” (Matthew 27:25).  Peter, preaching to the Jews later on, pointed his finger at them and said, “you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death” (Acts 2:23).
  3. God killed Jesus. “Yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted . . . Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief” (Isaiah 53:4, 10). Acts 2:23 confirms that Jesus was “delivered (unto death) by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God.”  God did it.
  4. I killed Jesus.  My sins nailed Him to the cross.  He died for me.

 

Who crucified Jesus?  All of us.  The sins of every individual, from Adam to this very day, nailed Him there.  The Crucifixion is not just a historical event that we recall at Easter.  It is a reminder that our sin, our falling short of God’s glory, our active or passive rebellion, is the very commodity that put Jesus on the cross. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

 

Concerning Zionists:  “Zionism” is a movement for the re-establishment and (now) the development of a Jewish nation in Israel.

 

Secular Jews feel that heritage and tradition is all that matters.  Like many other people who practice religion or tradition, they believe that they are right with God simply because of ritual or practice.  This is most of Israel today, but not in the future.

 

Christine, always remember that biblical prophecy is written to transform us.  It is written so we might live with holiness and purity while awaiting Christ’s return.  It is written to inspire us to renewed fervor:  It is written so that we might pursue God’s will for our lives with rekindled fire and fresh zeal.

 

“Do business till I come” (Luke 19:12-13).  “Surely I am coming quickly” (Revelation 22:20).  

“. . . Be patient.  Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand(James 5:8).

 

Again, thank you for your confidence and for being an encourager.  We are rejoicing in the Lord and rejoicing with you.  “And again I say, ‘Rejoice’” (Philippians 4:4).

 

Turning Point for God

“Delivering the Unchanging Word of God to an ever-changing world”

 

If any readers here feel led to do so, please share any thoughts, questions, approval, or disagreements regarding this exchange in the comment section.

Thank you and God bless,

Christine

Advertisements

Tags: , , , , ,

22 Responses to “Agents Of The Apocalypse Discussion”

  1. Agents Of The Apocalypse Discussion | Christians Anonymous Says:

    […] Source: Agents Of The Apocalypse Discussion […]

    Like

  2. GMpilot Says:

    Why so upset about the rock creatures in the Noah movie? Haven’t you ever heard the Jewish legend of the golem? Oh, right; you’re only interested in some aspects of the religion your own is built upon. The ‘rock creatures’ are entirely biblical; they’re mentioned crosswise in Psalms, just like the unicorn is.

    Did you really expect Dr. J to answer you personally? Given the size of his enterprise, he must have professional interpreters to respond to mail like yours. Even if he gets only 1000 letters a day, there’s not enough time to answer them by himself.

    Anyway…
    I’d always had the impression that Zionism was a form of Jewish super-patriotism. Something endorsed by the religious orthodoxy as an equivalent to the John Birchers. Something supported by Jewish citizens in the USA in the same way that Irish-Americans piped funds to the Nationalists or the Unionists in Northern Ireland. US evangelicals, of course, support anything involving Israel because Israel must continue to exist. Jesus can’t return to Israel if there is no such place.
    The Jewish Virtual Library defines several types of Zionism, but Religious Zionism appears to be the relevant one here.
    Not to defend the man, but it’s clear he’s extrapolating. It’s part of the tale he’s telling about Eli and what the future holds (according to Revelation and Dr. J). Don’t get too stressed about the Zionism aspect of it.

    Like

  3. christinewjc Says:

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts, GM.

    No, I didn’t even expect a reply, so I was glad that I did get one. It would have been nice to know who wrote it, though.

    Like

  4. christinewjc Says:

    P.S.

    I didn’t see any reference to “rock creatures” in the Psalms link that you provided. Were you thinking about Psalm 139:15?

    Psa 139:15

    My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

    In his commentary at Blue Letter Bible, Matthew Henry explains what is meant by “the lowest parts of the earth”:

    2. Glorious things are here said concerning it. The generation of man is to be considered with the same pious veneration as his creation at first. Consider it, (1.) As a great marvel, a great miracle we might call it, but that it is done in the ordinary course of nature. We are fearfully and wonderfully made; we may justly be astonished at the admirable contrivance of these living temples, the composition of every part, and the harmony of all together. (2.) As a great mystery, a mystery of nature: My soul knows right well that it is marvelous, but how to describe it for any one else I know not; for I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the womb as in the lowest parts of the earth, so privately, and so far out of sight. (3.) As a great mercy, that all our members in continuance were fashioned, according as they were written in the book of God’s wise counsel, when as yet there was none of them; or, as some read it, and none of them was left out. If any of our members had been wanting in God’s book, they would have been wanting in our bodies, but, through his goodness, we have all our limbs and sense, the want of any of which might have made us burdens to ourselves. See what reason we have then to praise God for our creation, and to conclude that he who saw our substance when it was unfashioned sees it now that it is fashioned.

    Also, because Adam was made from the “dust of the ground,” and then God breathed life into him, any reference to the earth does not mean rock creatures.

    Gen 2:7

    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

    Like

  5. gmpilot Says:

    You’re welcome, Christine.
    It would be nice to know who wrote the bible, too. It might explain why it’s so disjointed in so many places.
    Let’s see who else responds to this. It’s interesting that in so many of your posts I have been the first one to reply to them—and often the only one.

    This is as good a time as any to wish you Happy Anniversary. It was ten years ago this week that we first ‘met’, and it’s been quite a ride. I wish I could re-read our old posts on your original forum site, but that’s not going to happen…and I see that you’ve heavily redacted the past seven years at your former TW blog. Entire months are gone, as though they’d never existed! But we both know better.
    It would have been nice to follow all those years in print, to see how our relationship has developed. Once upon a time we could, as you used to say, “agree to disagree” and even exchange jokes about it. Not any more. I have my own ideas of how it has come to this, but won’t go into them now.

    Let’s see if any of your fellow Christians show more interest in Agents of the Apocalypse than this unbeliever. As your designated ‘favorite nemesis’, I am always ready to present another point of view. Here’s to us!
    Looking forward to the next decade,
    GMpilot

    Like

  6. gmpilot Says:

    Yes, I did mean Psalms 139:16. The Blue Letter Bible (Interlinear folder) defines the word golem as “my substance, yet being imperfect” (Hebrew), and according to legend Adam himself was a golem until god blew the ‘breath of life” into him. (See also History under the Wikipedia entry). The creature’s size didn’t matter.
    Besides, if Adam was made from the ‘dust of the earth’, what else could he have been?

    Like

  7. christinewjc Says:

    The Bible was written by individuals, prophets, disciples, and apostles who were led along by the Holy Spirit of God to record what they experienced and were encouraged to record. Of course, we will still need to “agree to disagree” on that point.

    Ten years? Wow…I’m old! LOL

    It is nice to read kind words from you…even when they are few and far between the nemesis debates!

    I see that about 4 other people visited this post and one follower of this blog posted a link back. Perhaps people just don’t have any time anymore to respond; or, they are just “readers” and prefer not to comment. Who knows?

    The redacted posts over at the Blogger Talk Wisdom site is news to me! I didn’t erase any posts there. I suppose Blogger does that automatically because I no longer log into that dashboard. Recall back in 2012, Blogger changed the rules and forces Blogger owners to “log into all of G00gle” I refused to comply so I never logged back in again. In fact, the daily virus attempts stopped once I switched over to Word Press. Plus, because I do not log in at Blogger, I wasn’t able to tell followers there of this new blog. Therefore, I started all over again here back in Nov. 2012.

    Also, my website “Angels Helper” is gone! My husband and I agreed to stop paying for the domain years ago – but it stayed up nonetheless. When I checked it the other day, it was gone. Oh well…

    You wrote:

    It would have been nice to follow all those years in print, to see how our relationship has developed. Once upon a time we could, as you used to say, “agree to disagree” and even exchange jokes about it. Not any more. I have my own ideas of how it has come to this, but won’t go into them now.

    It’s 0bama’s fault!!

    😉

    Like

  8. christinewjc Says:

    GM wrote:

    Besides, if Adam was made from the ‘dust of the earth’, what else could he have been?

    A man!!

    Look, I’m not a biologist or any kind of scientist, but when the Bible tells me that:

    Psa 139:14

    I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; [fn]
    Marvelous are Your works,
    And that my soul knows very well.

    …then I doubt that Adam was once a rock creature!

    Besides, where did our soul come from? Where did our mind come from? Where did our spirit come from? We all are body, mind, soul and spirit…you know.

    Like

  9. gmpilot Says:

    Yep, that was my idea of when/how your writing began to decline.
    (BTW, I see what you did there.)

    Like

  10. christinewjc Says:

    In your opinion…my writing declined.

    I tried to warn people about what a disaster O would be.

    Ozero golfing, minutes after his “speech” about James Foley being decapitated by Muslim terrorists is just heartless and despicable!

    Now, our country is suffering as a result of people falling for his pompous rhetoric and lies and thus helping to vote in the worst pResident in U.S. history. In addition to those who fell hook, line, and sinker for this puppet, the puppet master Soros – whose machines “counted” [more like stole the election] the votes, and ValeriEVIL Jarrett are running the show and causing chaos not only in America – but around the world.

    0bola and his puppeteers caused America’s decline over the past 6 years. But don’t take my word for it. Anyone can read all about it here.

    Like

  11. gmpilot Says:

    The bible tells you a great many things. You don’t have to be a biologist or any kind of scientist to know that some of them are wrong.

    We were talking about Dr. J and his prophecy novel, not Obama. You will not derail your own thread. Even though this is your blog, I’d like to see you go through just ONE thread where he doesn’t dominate your thoughts. Let this be that one.

    Let us compare prophecy (which, by definition, hasn’t yet happened) to history (which has happened).

    Dr. J describes a scenario in which the Prime Ministers of both Israel and the UK announce a treaty in which Britain is guarantor of Israeli-Arab peace for seven years. Some people might look on it as “a secomd Balfour Declaration”. Others, perhaps recalling Neville Chamberlain’s deal with the Nazis over Czechoslovakia, might have second thoughts.
    Oh yes, I’ve actually watched the video, which is more than you’ve done with anything I’ve recommended.

    It sounds very much as if Dr. J is moving into the Left Behind franchise—putting his own spin on it, of course.
    Do police in Israel arrest people for prophesying? The most the Two Witlesses could be charged with is ‘creating a public nuisance’. No one would be able to prove they’d had anything to do with the waters turning foul. If they could, the authorities would then declare it a terrorist act, and proceed as the laws allow. If a hundred thousand Israelis die as a result of the putrid water AND it could be traced back to Those Two, then there could be an indictment of mass murder as well. Especially if the water in the neighboring Arab states remains clean.
    And just how would those nations interpret this event? As the ‘judgment of allah’, of course, and perhaps a signal that maybe now is the time to wipe Israel off the map. Then again, perhaps not. The wealth of rich countries often seeps over into their neighbors, and a wise man doesn’t blow up his own gold mine.

    Dr. J seems to believe that the IDF would shrink as the result of their increased prosperity. History tells a different story. As most nations become richer, their military increases in size, often because they now have more to lose, and are more anxious to protect it. No foreign army has landed on our shores in 200 years, but Israel has always had hostile neighbors, and has often had to fight for its existence. That kind of thinking will not disappear overnight, treaty or no treaty. If anything, a wish to protect what they have could easily lead Israelis to become more conservative and exclusionary, allowing only the ‘right’ people to enter the country—just as the USA once did (and is trying to do again).

    Ah, well. By his own admission, Jeremiah is giving a “dramatized” (fictional) account of an event that hasn’t happened. But it tries to portray itself as nonfiction. Do you feel it to be an accurate picture compared to, say, Lindsey or van Impe, and if not, why not?

    Liked by 1 person

  12. gmpilot Says:

    (Too large a link. This is the correct version.)

    The bible tells you a great many things. You don’t have to be a biologist or any kind of scientist to know that some of them are wrong.

    We were talking about Dr. J and his prophecy novel, not Obama. You will not derail your own thread.

    We were talking about Dr. J and his prophecy novel, not Obama. You will not derail your own thread. Even though this is your blog, I’d like to see you go through just ONE thread where he doesn’t dominate your thoughts. Let this be that one.

    Let us compare prophecy (which, by definition, hasn’t yet happened) to history (which has happened).

    Dr. J describes a scenario in which the Prime Ministers of both Israel and the UK announce a treaty in which Britain is guarantor of Israeli-Arab peace for seven years. Some people might look on it as “a second Balfour Declaration”. Others, perhaps recalling Neville Chamberlain’s deal with the Nazis over Czechoslovakia, might have second thoughts.

    It sounds very much as if Dr. J is moving into the Left Behind franchise—putting his own spin on it, of course.
    Do police in Israel arrest people for prophesying? The most the Two Witlesses could be charged with is ‘creating a public nuisance’. No one would be able to prove they’d had anything to do with the waters turning foul. If they could, the authorities would then declare it a terrorist act, and proceed as the laws allow. If a hundred thousand Israelis die as a result of the putrid water AND it could be traced back to Those Two, then there could be an indictment of mass murder as well. Especially if the water in the neighboring Arab states remains clean.
    And just how would those nations interpret this event? As the ‘judgment of allah’, of course, and perhaps a signal that maybe now is the time to wipe Israel off the map. Then again, perhaps not. The wealth of rich countries often seeps over into their neighbors, and a wise man doesn’t blow up his own gold mine.

    Dr. J seems to believe that the IDF would shrink as the result of their increased prosperity. History tells a different story. As most nations become richer, their military increases in size, usually because they now have more to lose, and are more anxious to protect it. No foreign army has landed on our shores in 200 years, but Israel has always had hostile neighbors, and has often had to fight for its existence. That kind of thinking will not disappear overnight, treaty or no treaty. If anything, a wish to protect what they have could easily lead Israelis to become more conservative and exclusionary, allowing only the ‘right’ people to enter the country—just as the USA once did (and is trying to do again).

    Ah, well. By his own admission, Jeremiah is giving a “dramatized” (fictional) account of an event that hasn’t happened. But it tries to portray itself as nonfiction. Do you feel it to be an accurate picture compared to, say, Lindsey or van Impe, and if not, why not?

    Like

  13. christinewjc Says:

    You have given some long links to read. I will get to them when I have more time. Meanwhile, I will just comment on the second portion of your comment.

    Sounds like you watched the episode. Congratulations!

    Being that it was a fictional account (backed up by Scripture, mind you) of course there will be parts that have been thought up by the fictional writer that Dr. Jeremiah employed for those sections of the book. As you saw in my letter to the ministry, I had concerns about this. However, so far they have turned out to be only minor concerns (so far). The book will be released (I pre-ordered it) Oct. 7th, so hopefully I will get it soon.

    I’m surprised that you didn’t bring up Dr. Jeremiah’s opinion (backed up by Scripture) of the Two Witnesses. THAT is more important than arguing about what was done in the fictional account (which may have been embellished a bit, but was also backed up by Scripture).. I thought that the correlation he made re: the Transfiguration with Jesus and then Elijah and Moses coming back as the Two Witnesses fascinating!

    The Bible says that they will prophesy for 3 1/2 years. After they are killed, left dead in the street for 3 days, and then miraculously resurrected and ascended into heaven, it is at that point all hell breaks loose on earth. The anti-Christ breaks the peace treaty with Israel and all of her enemies eventually converge upon that small nation. Then the judgments come, with Jerusalem only to be saved by the return of Christ. But I am getting ahead in the story here.

    Who is “Lindsey”? First name might help me recall. Oh wait – he is the author of “The Late Great Planet Earth?” Hal! I haven’t read that book in years so I couldn’t tell you right now how he compares with Dr. Jeremiah.

    I do watch Jack Van Impe’s show on Daystar and he is great at revealing how current events point towards the end times. He memorizes Scripture and shares the pertinent verses in the news cycle discussion.

    Impe did have an affection for the previous two popes of the Catholic Church, but finds Francis as guilty of falling away from the faith. It’s an interesting side note, but there are books out there concerning just whom might be “the last pope” and what role he might play in the end times.

    It’s difficult not to see how a revitalized Roman empire may re-emerge and be the “Babylon” of Revelation. However, some Christian writers think that the Babylon in Revelation means Iraq. Others see Babylon as the Roman empire included in the European Union.

    Jeremiah and Impe both agree with the pre-tribulation Rapture. I heard that the new Left Behind movie is really good. Need to go see it.

    Well, gotta run for now. Be back later.

    Like

    • gmpilot Says:

      A few more thoughts on how scripture is ’embellished a bit’:
      Mark is recognized as the oldest (and most authentic) of the four gospels. Yet at least two different endings are known to exist, and hair-splitting among the clerics and scholars increases that to four.
      It’s been long noted that the gospel of Matthew is a copy of the Gospel of Mark. Almost every verse of Mark is included in Matthew, and almost always in the same order. Much of Matthew has been rewritten and much has been taken verbatim from the earlier book. For example:

      Mark’s “He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them” (6:5)
      becomes
      Matthew’s ”And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith” (13:58).

      A miracle-worker who lost all his powers becomes a miracle-worker who lost only some of his powers in the latter scripture.
      Now why would the author of Matthew want to do that?
      I think it was meant as propaganda—to tell people that Jesus really was the Jewish Messiah that the Hebrew writings foretold. I’ve pointed out to you before that Matthew writes of the two crucified thieves very differently from Luke, for example (and Mark never even mentions them), but you may look on that as just nitpicking.
      So here’s a different one: Matthew 28:19, where Jesus supposedly says, ”Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” This is a precise and clear statement of the doctrine of the Trinity—but neither Mark nor Luke mentions it at all, and in Acts, baptism is always done in Jesus’ name alone. If Mark is the oldest gospel, and it doesn’t mention such an important point, then it’s obvious that ‘Matthew’ shoehorned it into the text.
      This has been pointed out many times over the centuries, even by Christians themselves, and I’m sure you must know that, seeing that you have a sheepskin in Apologetics from BioLA and all.
      Dr. J is simply the latest in a long line of those choose to ’embellish (scripture) a bit’ in order to push whatever version of the holy text that they want to tell. Just like in the Noah movie.
      The eternal, unchanging word of god changed yet again.

      Like

  14. gmpilot Says:

    As you know by now, that endless link was in error. A redacted post followed it, but I was unable to delete the first one.

    Onward.

    ”……then I doubt that Adam was once a rock creature!”
    Doubt all you like. It’s good for you. I do it regularly. But the texts say he was more like mud, rather than rock.

    ”Besides, where did our soul come from? Where did our mind come from? Where did our spirit come from? We all are body, mind, soul and spirit…you know.”
    No, I don’t know, and I doubt you know either. But unlike you, I can admit it.

    The mind comes from the brain. So does the soul, and so does the spirit, because the brain creates these things. They all cease to exist when the brain dies. Yes, the physical creates the immaterial, never the other way around. The only ‘spirits’ I’ve ever encountered involved paint, alcohol, or medicine, and I never actually saw them, only smelled them.

    You seem to believe that human spirits exist eternally, floating in the Nothing, waiting for a body (often imperfect) to inhabit. If that’s so, then we have no say about the bodies that house us. That’s perilously close to reincarnation, which I know you don’t believe in. If we didn’t need a body to house our souls before we were born, why would we need another one after we’re dead?
    Another thing: what;s the difference between ‘soul’ and ‘spirit’? Most people use them interchangeably, and some god-thumpers attribute spirit to things that don’t even need them: the ‘spirit of anger’ or ‘spirit of disease’. The only thing the two words have in common is that they describe something that hasn’t been shown to exist.
    I haven’t watched AotA videos #3 and #4 yet. Probably Dr. J will explain the difference by video #10. But you’re welcome to explain it in his place, if you can. I’ll probably view them all, just to hold up my end of this discussion.

    Almost everything is the scriptures is ’embellished a bit’. None of the Gospels agree with each other on all points (some of which are very important points!). Paul embellishes his tale of the road experience each time he tells it, and tells the tale—once–of the five hundred who saw the risen Jesus. He didn’t see it himself, and he never describes what happened or what was said. None of the five hundred communicated it to him, because I think if someone had, he would have said so. Even the “I come quickly” is an embellishment, because it’s been 2000 human years—and what does ‘quickly’ mean to an immortal being, anyway?

    Unlike your past sites, only you know what the stats for this one are. But I find it hard to believe that of all possible numbers you may have, no fellow Christian has yet added their opinion. This hints that I take your god more seriously than the rest of you, and I don’t even believe in him!

    Like

  15. christinewjc Says:

    I was away for several days. Upon returning, I have released all the comments you have posted. You can go in and delete the one you posted in error.

    Your Mark and Matthew example answers your own confusion. Mark revealed that not many miracles were performed there and Matthew reveals the reason why – LACK of FAITH!

    Attempting to find errors and contradictions was the goal of the skeptics annotated Bible. Just do a search and you will see how that entire enterprise was destroyed by the truth of Scripture itself.

    About baptism. Without faith in Christ, one cannot be baptized. However, baptizing in the NAME (notice, the singular use of the word) encompasses the Trinity (three Persons in one God) revelation of the Godhead. [Readers who come upon this post may like to read The Trinity All Around You

    I received the Agents of the Apocalypse book and have read the first chapter. The fictional portion is backed up by Scripture; therefore, they are designed to be stories to represent what could happen precisely because of what is written in the text of the Bible. I think it might be a big help for people who are not familiar with the book of Revelation and may not understand the symbolism being shared.

    GM wrote:

    The mind comes from the brain. So does the soul, and so does the spirit, because the brain creates these things.

    So…Who created the brain?

    The soul is described:

    noun

    1.

    the spirit or immaterial part of man, the seat of human personality, intellect, will, and emotions, regarded as an entity that survives the body after death related adjective pneumatic

    2.

    (Christianity) the spiritual part of a person, capable of redemption from the power of sin through divine grace

    The soul of each person is uniquely different. However, when we die (repose of the soul), we experience one of two destinations. Either we go to be with the Lord, or we are destined to hell.

    Repose (second meaning at dictionary.com):

    verb (used with object), reposed, reposing.

    1.

    to put (confidence, trust, etc.) in a person or thing.

    2.

    to put under the authority or at the disposal of a person.

    So you see we will either belong to the Lord or end up being “put under the authority” of another being. I would choose God if I were you.

    General definitions of the term “spirit” include:

    noun

    1.

    the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul.

    2.

    the incorporeal part of humans:
    “present in spirit though absent in body.”

    3.

    the soul regarded as separating from the body at death.

    In Christianity we have:

    Spirit

    /ˈspɪrɪt/

    noun the Spirit

    1.

    a.another name for the Holy Spirit
    b.God, esp when regarded as transcending material limitations

    2.

    the influence of God or divine things upon the soul

    As far as time is concerned, God isn’t under the time constraints that we are. Recall the verse that tells us that (paraphrased here) ‘a day is as in 1,000 years, and 1,000 years as in a day.’ Therefore it’s only been 2 days!

    Would you believe if the time the world has experienced waiting for Christ’s return was a mere 2 days? If not, then why would you believe if it has taken over 2,000 years?

    I do not know the exact reasons why this blog does not get much traffic and/or comments. Perhaps it has to do with my decision not to share it via Face Book, Twitter, all of g00gle etc. I do share posts at the TEA Party community site and have gotten responses there.

    Like I had written before, I do not want to sign into all of g00gle, and when one chooses to do that one can’t expect to achieve a lot of traffic at one’s site. But that’s OK. Those who seek shall find; whether it’s at this blog or any other Christian-based blog.

    Oh…one more thing. The “I come quickly” means that when it happens, the event will be instantaneous. It is like waiting for an earthquake…one can contemplate about it but when it happens, you will know it!

    Like

  16. christinewjc Says:

    GM wrote:

    No confusion here. Mark and Matthew BOTH describe the ‘unbelief’ of the citizens of Jesus’ hometown. So, sufficient disbelief can negate the powers of the Son of the Lord of the Universe? That’s an interesting observation.

    It negates the ability of the unbeliever to accept the healing afforded to them. Recall the verse, “Without faith, it is impossible to please God.”

    Jesus, the God-Man demonstrated the greatest faith ever in that “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” The verses that tell us that “it pleased God to bruise Him” at the cross indicates that the only way for mankind to be reconciled back unto God the Father was through the faithful plan that all members of the God Head agreed to. A righteous judge cannot just let a criminal go without punishment. Christ took our place for such punishment; therefore BELIEF in Him and His mission while repenting of our sin and asking Him to indwell us through the power of the Holy Spirit enables us to be saved from the punishment we deserve and thus reconciled back unto God.

    I realize that you know these facts, but your unbelief in them purports your mind into not accepting them. You continue to come here and make accusations against God the Father, you create excuses for disbelief in Jesus Christ His Son, and you continue your adamant rejection of the Holy Spirit knocking on the door of your heart. That is your choice. No one is forcing you…least of all God. If you don’t like the Gospel of Salvation and refuse to believe it as truth, then so be it.

    GM wrote:

    Where’s the evidence that anyone ‘created’ the brain?

    Gen 1:26

    Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all [fn] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

    Gen 1:27

    So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

    Gen 1:28

    Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

    Mar 12:30

    ‘And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [fn] This is the first commandment. [fn]

    Rom 12:2

    And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

    That’s the good news. But because of free will, we also have the bad news of rejecting God’s commands, His righteousness and holiness:

    Rom 1:28

    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

    Rom 1:29

    being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, [fn] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,

    Rom 1:30

    backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

    Rom 1:31

    undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, [fn] unmerciful;

    Rom 1:32

    who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

    Rom 8:7

    Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

    The decision between the two ways of life:

    Rom 7:25

    I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

    And…the means of rescue from a debased mind:

    Rom 8:27

    Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

    Just type “hell” into the search at Blue Letter Bible and you will see what it says about that destination, and those whose destiny will be assured for ending up there.

    We have had previous discussions about “1,000 years is as a day to the Lord and a day is as 1,000 years.” No point in rehashing that.

    Matthew Henry explains the “I come quickly” portion of Scripture:

    I. Christ’s farewell to his church. He seems now, after he has been discovering these things to his people on earth, to take leave of them, and return to heaven; but he parts with them in great kindness, and assures them it shall not be long before he comes again to them: Behold, I come quickly. As when he ascended into heaven, after his resurrection, he parted with a promise of his gracious presence, so here he parts with a promise of a speedy return. If any say, “Where is the promise of his coming, when so many ages have passed since this was written?’ let them know he is not slack to his people, but long-suffering to his enemies: his coming will be sooner than they are aware, sooner than they are prepared, sooner than they desire; and to his people it will be seasonable. The vision is for an appointed time, and will not tarry. He will come quickly; let this word be always sounding in our ear, and let us give all diligence that we may be found of him in peace, without spot and blameless.

    Update:

    In Agents of the Apocalypse on page 22, Dr. Jeremiah writes:

    The Bible most often expresses the second coming of Christ by using the Greek word parousia. This is the Greek term for “coming” or “advent,” but it came to be applied in a technical sense to the arrival of Christ. The Greek word carries specific connotations that are helpful: a parousia is an entrance that immediately changes the existing situation it enters.

    Picture a teacher who momentarily steps out of the classroom. At his departure, the students become loud [and disorderly], but when the teacher steps back into the room, everything changes. At his parousia, the students quiet down, and order is restored. This is a snapshot of what will happen when the King returns. Everything will change–evil will be shut down, order will be restored, and justice will reign.

    BTW, you need to remember to close your hyperlinks on just a few words, rather than several paragraphs.

    Like

  17. christinewjc Says:

    GM,

    Just wanted to say that I appreciate you for asking these tough questions. As a Christian who wants to share biblical truth, it is often difficult to have discussions like these with those who do not believe in Jesus Christ.

    We have had our differences (and verbal disagreements) in the past which sometimes ended up ugly, but for the most part here in this thread, you and I have been quite cordial. I really appreciate that and hope that we can avoid verbal (more accurately, written) attacks against each other in the future.

    About your question regarding people reading and posting here. My stats reveal that anywhere from 40 – 90 visitors arrive here to read each day. I currently have 38 followers who get the posts via email.

    The one good thing about blogging is that when people put the same words of any titled post that I have written in a search engine, they may come upon this blog weeks, months, and even years later. Admittedly, I’m a small-time blogger, but it is always my hope and prayer that one or many of my posts here will help those who are searching for the truth about Jesus Christ.

    Like

  18. gmpilot Says:

    ”It negates the ability of the unbeliever to accept the healing afforded to them. Recall the verse, “Without faith, it is impossible to please God.”
    Jesus, the God-Man demonstrated the greatest faith ever in that “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” The verses that tell us that “it pleased God to bruise Him” at the cross indicates that the only way for mankind to be reconciled back unto God the Father was through the faithful plan that all members of the God Head agreed to. A righteous judge cannot just let a criminal go without punishment. Christ took our place for such punishment; therefore BELIEF in Him and His mission while repenting of our sin and asking Him to indwell us through the power of the Holy Spirit enables us to be saved from the punishment we deserve and thus reconciled back unto God.”

    But Jesus was NOT a criminal. They–and you–say he was sinless. Any judge who condemns an innocent man to death is not righteous. A human judge might do that, because he might not know all the facts; God the Father could not make that excuse.
    So it ‘pleased God’ to bruise Jesus? Obviously, having ‘faith’ was not enough.

    “I realize that you know these facts, but your unbelief in them purports your mind into not accepting them. You continue to come here and make accusations against God the Father, you create excuses for disbelief in Jesus Christ His Son, and you continue your adamant rejection of the Holy Spirit knocking on the door of your heart. That is your choice. No one is forcing you…least of all God. If you don’t like the Gospel of Salvation and refuse to believe it as truth, then so be it.”
    If you believe all that, then you might consider that your god might have steered me here, since you seem to think there’s some underlying Plan in everything that happens. Odd how the same god who deliberately hardened the heart of Pharaoh is now ‘knocking on the door of [my] heart’ as if I was worthy of respect. True, no one’s forcing me to stay…but I have an obligation to argue against what I believe to be untrue. I’m funny that way.

    ”GM wrote:
    Where’s the evidence that anyone ‘created’ the brain?

    Gen 1:26
    Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all [fn] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
    Gen 1:27
    So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.”

    That would mean that God has a brain—and also a full set of male and female genitals, since we’re supposedly created in his image. But this God is always referred to as male—and there is no Mrs. God.
    So who ‘created’ God’s brain?

    ”That’s the good news. But because of free will, we also have the bad news of rejecting God’s commands, His righteousness and holiness:
    Rom 1:28
    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
    Rom 1:29
    being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, [fn] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
    Rom 1:30
    backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    Rom 1:31
    undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, [fn] unmerciful;
    Rom 1:32
    who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.”

    But are we not made in the image of god? Are we not the clay, and he the potter?
    You say that’s all because of “free will”. But god has a plan for us, and that plan cannot be thwarted. There can be no such thing as free will in a universe where nothing happens unless a god either makes it happen or allows it to happen. I am repeatedly told that THIS is that universe.

    ”Just type “hell” into the search at Blue Letter Bible and you will see what it says about that destination, and those whose destiny will be assured for ending up there.
    We have had previous discussions about “1,000 years is as a day to the Lord and a day is as 1,000 years.” No point in rehashing that.”

    I agree. I just wanted to remind you that we did hash that.

    ”Matthew Henry explains the “I come quickly” portion of Scripture:”
    Once again you need a professional interpreter to tell you what that passage really meant, because the brain god gave you knows that 1000 years is a very long time by human standards, and the eyes god gave you can see that the Son of Man has not returned. That brain and those eyes may be deceived; you must not trust them.

    You continue to believe that I have never read the bible. I don’t know how you do it, but I’d find it hard to argue against a book I haven’t read. You watched Desperate Housewives to conclude it was trash, didn’t you?

    Henry says that Jesus ‘assures them it shall not be long before he comes again to them: Behold, I come quickly. As when he ascended into heaven, after his resurrection, he parted with a promise of his gracious presence, so here he parts with a promise of a speedy return.’ Again, what is ‘speedy’ to an immortal being? Especially a being who knows that the people he’s talking to won’t live but the smallest fraction of his life.
    Sounds rather like a joke I heard years ago:

    Once a man asked God, “What’s a million years to you?”
    God said, :A second.”
    “And God,” asked the men, “what’s a million dollars to you?”
    God said, “A penny.”
    “Well then, God,” said the man, won’t you give me a penny?”
    And God replied “Yes, I will. Wait a second.”

    ”In Agents of the Apocalypse on page 22, Dr. Jeremiah writes:
    The Bible most often expresses the second coming of Christ by using the Greek word
    parousia. This is the Greek term for “coming” or “advent,” but it came to be applied in a technical sense to the arrival of Christ. The Greek word carries specific connotations that are helpful: a parousia is an entrance that immediately changes the existing situation it enters.
    Picture a teacher who momentarily steps out of the classroom. At his departure, the students become loud [and disorderly], but when the teacher steps back into the room, everything changes. At his
    parousia, the students quiet down, and order is restored. This is a snapshot of what will happen when the King returns. Everything will change–evil will be shut down, order will be restored, and justice will reign.”

    Except that some of the students will have cut class, most of the remainder will be dead, and the teacher, when he returns, will kill a few more and send a few of the survivors home. The rest will go to detention—forever. Parousia is not like high school, and Dr. J knows that.

    ”BTW, you need to remember to close your hyperlinks on just a few words, rather than several paragraphs.”
    Yeah, I’ve gotten careless lately. I’ll work on that.

    Like

  19. gmpilot Says:

    ”Just wanted to say that I appreciate you for asking these tough questions. As a Christian who wants to share biblical truth, it is often difficult to have discussions like these with those who do not believe in Jesus Christ.”

    I appreciate that compliment, Christine. Unlike yourself, though, I say there is no ‘biblical truth’ and there is no secular truth. There is only truth, and I’d rather share that.

    ”We have had our differences (and verbal disagreements) in the past which sometimes ended up ugly, but for the most part here in this thread, you and I have been quite cordial. I really appreciate that and hope that we can avoid verbal (more accurately, written) attacks against each other in the future.”

    We still have our differences, but there’s no real reason we can’t discuss them, rather than cuss them.
    There are always tough questions to be answered. What matters is if the answer consists of long, convoluted answers, a short comprehensive answer, or a simple “I don’t know.” Nobody, including me, likes to admit they don’t have an answer—but that’s how it is sometimes.

    ”About your question regarding people reading and posting here. My stats reveal that anywhere from 40 – 90 visitors arrive here to read each day. I currently have 38 followers who get the posts via email.
    The one good thing about blogging is that when people put the same words of any titled post that I have written in a search engine, they may come upon this blog weeks, months, and even years later. Admittedly, I’m a small-time blogger, but it is always my hope and prayer that one or many of my posts here will help those who are searching for the truth about Jesus Christ.”

    My stats reveal that out of 38 people, at least one, and perhaps as many as three, might be expected to post a reply on a regular basis. That’s not the case. It would not be nice for me to think that this is because the majority of your audience are self-satisfied Christians, so secure of where they’re going that they don’t care if others go or not. They have their lives, just as you and I have ours—but it matters enough to you to run this blog, and it matters enough to me to dispute it.
    Draw your own conclusions.

    Like

  20. christinewjc Says:

    GM wrote:

    I appreciate that compliment, Christine. Unlike yourself, though, I say there is no ‘biblical truth’ and there is no secular truth. There is only truth, and I’d rather share that.

    Where I get the fact that there is biblical truth:

    Psa 119:160

    The entirety of Your word is truth,
    And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.

    Jhn 17:17

    “Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

    GM wrote:

    There are always tough questions to be answered. What matters is if the answer consists of long, convoluted answers, a short comprehensive answer, or a simple “I don’t know.” Nobody, including me, likes to admit they don’t have an answer—but that’s how it is sometimes.

    It’s true that no human being has all the answers. However, I believe that God does. As I have quoted in the past, “mankind is always catching up to the knowledge of God.” As Christians, we won’t know all until we meet Jesus Christ face to face in eternity.

    1Jo 3:2

    Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

    GM wrote:

    My stats reveal that out of 38 people, at least one, and perhaps as many as three, might be expected to post a reply on a regular basis. That’s not the case. It would not be nice for me to think that this is because the majority of your audience are self-satisfied Christians, so secure of where they’re going that they don’t care if others go or not.

    Well, I just don’t have an answer for why people who follow this blog do not post comments. One reason might be because I post so infrequently. Daily bloggers (with hundreds of followers) get more traffic. Plus, I refuse to link to g00gle in any way here so these posts do not get shared on a wide scale basis. All of this is supposition on my part.

    When I first started the Bl00ger Talk Wisdom blog, I didn’t have any comments for months! Then I learned to post on other blogs and eventually got traffic over there. I haven’t posted on many blogs over the past year or so because I have limited time online these days.

    There is no way to know whether or not there are “self-satisfied” Christians reading here who, as you wrote, “[are] so secure of where they’re going that they don’t care if others go or not.” But I do know that apologetics can be a tough part time “career” online. Usually those who are searching about the gospel of Christ (or topics related) reach here via what they type into any search engine. Those who are “self-satisfied” can be of any religion; or, the list can also include those who don’t hold to any religion or faith.

    It is prophesied in the book of Revelation that the closer we get to the end times, there will be a great “falling away” from the truth. These are those who call themselves Christians, but just like those who are referenced and revealed by Jesus in the parable of the sower, the seed was taken away or didn’t take root.

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s


%d bloggers like this: